Nasty pine bid

The only consideration I have when limbing sketchy trees like that is the way in which the dynamic loading of the tree is affected by limb removal on the way up, as it were. Yes, we are removing weight, but by virtue of our own weight and the dampening effect the removed limbs had we are also changing the way the stem is loaded. If the stem could resist the forces acting on it before we start, we convince ourselves that it will hold true as we dramatically change the way the structure is loaded and add our weight to the mix.

Its always about calculated risk in this biz. I'm not sure how I would do that tree, but the hi-line sounds like the safest, cheapest way.
 
Is that true on a leaning tree though where most, if not all, of the branches are to one side of the center of gravity?
 
I would think that the oscillation of the branches would affect the way in which the entire system reacts to dynamic loading regardless of lean. Limbing the tree changes the point on the trunk on which the lever arm is acting. The point I am trying to make is that it might be safer to cut a window for the top so it doesn't get hung as one climbs to the point where the top needs to come out, rather than remove all the limbs on the way up.

Perhaps this is foolish, or reading too deeply, perhaps the structure is fine to strip and top out. All I know is that if I got that bid I'd be doing it as soon as I could so I didn't have to think about it for too long.
 
I hear what you're saying CTM and agree. I've heard(somewhere or sometime) that conifers that are lollipopped become alot more prone to breakage. But I think that's mainly meant to mean more likely to break in highwinds. I would think Roger's point is if that thing stands there in a decent little gust then it
'should' stand in dead calm to being climbed, stripped, and topped out. Glad it's not my job/bid though.
 
Really hate to interject negativity into the daringness, but wasn't there some discussion awhile back about a well known tree guy, he might even have been an instructor, who was taking out the top of a rotten tree and the shock of it going over broke the tree below his tie in and that was all she wrote? Let's not forget...
 
rbtree said:
I'm all for doing the afore mentioned methods....tie in to other trees, guy it etc. However, one thing to consider is that with that lean, there is already a lot of weight on the root mass, yet the tree stands. The weight of a climber would not even be noticed, were the tree sentient...and as the tree is limbed it will get lighter.

While I'd want to take as many precautions as possible, I might be daring enough, were the tree standing alone, to climb to 120 feet and take a 40 foot top, which would be small enough to not pressure the stem much as it went over.
Click to expand...

X2... as long as there is a fat check waiting at the end of that climb... might go with a safety line in a nearby tree with the tail tied off to limit the swing rather than a high line as a back up... that would be enough adrenaline to hold me for a week or two..
 
woodworkingboy said:
Really hate to interject negativity into the daringness, but wasn't there some discussion awhile back about a well known tree guy, he might even have been an instructor, who was taking out the top of a rotten tree and the shock of it going over broke the tree below his tie in and that was all she wrote? Let's not forget...
Click to expand...

Yes, that was Peter Donzelli.
 
MasterBlaster said:
Uhhhhhhhhhhhh..... WHAT?
Click to expand...

Canadiantreeman was talking about leaving the branches on to dampen the trees reaction when you take the top. I was asking if that has an effect when the tree is leaning so heavily as none of the branches are counterbalancing the tree.
 
squisher said:
I hear what you're saying CTM and agree. I've heard(somewhere or sometime) that conifers that are lollipopped become alot more prone to breakage. But I think that's mainly meant to mean more likely to break in highwinds. I would think Roger's point is if that thing stands there in a decent little gust then it
'should' stand in dead calm to being climbed, stripped, and topped out. Glad it's not my job/bid though.
Click to expand...

Me too. I'm in my 36th year of tree work, and have done my share of wickedly dead trees, including leaning ones...some probably more compromised than Willie's, but likely never one nearly that tall and with that much lean.

Guy it and tie in to one or two other trees and go for it...

or go home8)
 
pantheraba said:
Yes, that was Peter Donzelli.
Click to expand...

I heard he sideloaded a tree with a lowering line set on a ground anchor on the base of an adjacent tree with no redirect, and the ground man took 5 wraps. That is a recipe for tree failure, especially if he was using double braid.

No disrespect intended, BUT he was out of his element.. like the crocodile hunter swimming in water (not his element) so close to the ray, never realizing death was right there beside him. They are both immortal now...
 
Sorry, saying that someone is out of his element based on a story that you HEARD, does not make any other sense to me other than being disrespectful.
 
That story comes from a good source..

To say he was out of his element is a solid interpretation.. He was a great scientist and pioneering thinker. He made a mistake that cost him his life. Its good to know and understand that mistake, as with all mistakes, they offer learning opportunities. When we learn what we can, and apply it, we honor the sacrafice he made. When we idolize him and don't speak honestly about his mistake, we dishonor that sacrafice.

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showf...080&Words=Riggs&topic=&Search=true#Post160286
 
Flowery words, but if that forum discussion is your "source", it would seem that the cause of the accident and whether Peters death can be blamed on attempting to work above his level of experize, is unclear. Beyond a mistake being made, there are different interpretations of the incident posted. You just picked one?

I don't want to detour this thread any longer, my only point being that I believe that one needs to be very clear on things such as this, before making such bold statements.
 
I know the Donzelli story well. Murph is right...He rarely did hands on tree work. The tree, which had been lightning struck, failed below where he was tied in, as the side load forces on the top being lowered broke the tree out below him before it had been cut free. The failure occurred as the ground crew set their wraps on a tree off to the side--and took three wraps. As he was falling he was attempting to unclip his lanyard, but failed to do so, and landed underneath the section. Ken Palmer (former Arbormaster instructor) told me the details way back shortly after it happened.

Peter was capable of doing complex rigging calculations, on paper, and well understood the dynamics of our work, but seldom actually did any.
 
Its a bold statement that I agree with.. and yes one of many expressed...

Willie has to do what he thinks is safe, no matter how Donizelli died... to say "isn't that how Donizelli died" (climbing a tree with decay)
"let's not forget"... I don't agree with the implication.. We don't have enough information to draw an intelligent or insightful analogy... Best to leave Donizelli out of the conversation. Maybe I should have said that to begin with.
 
Not that it would work in this case, but could you ever use a crane as one end of a highline, to get your line more lined up?
 
Ya if your helicopter happened to be down that day.. otherwise why not just rappel out of the chopper?, or maybe if you wanted to go low budget, you could just duct tape a bunch of old extension ladders into a big tripod... that would look great huh?

(not giving you a hard time... just havin' some fun)
 
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