Mentors/mentoring

OTGBOSTON

OTGBOSTON

punk in drublic
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
4,180
Location
Tha Dirty Bean...Boston Massachusetts
Burnham made a comment about letting a young faller do a tricky removal with him present, which made me think of this thread.

I have heard Jay and Stig refer to their apprentices, and Burnham frequently refers to his students.

I am wondering if people here are conscious of finding 'teachable moments'.

How many people here actively mentor young tree guys?

and please feel free to mention anyone who may have mentored you along the way.
 
Most of my teachers/ mentors never (or rarely) actively instructed me. Back when I had my lawn business and had bought my first chainsaw, I used to keep my eyes and ears open for tree guys working. I used to stop whenever I saw a climber in a tree and watch intently. Usually I would pick something up, sometimes a helpful move but mostly what not to do. I rarely ever got any actual instruction until I found the online tree forums. Arboristsite and the Treehouse have been my best instructors over the last 12 years.
 
Good one Greg. For the work that I do, I am constantly trying to teach/mentor, to those that are interested. I don't do the hands on tree work that most here do but what I am good at, I try to pass along my experience.
 
" Teachable moments".

Nice expression.
When I run apprentices ( I don't have one right now) I look for those constantly.
I'll be marking trees mentally to set aside for them to practise on, both felling and climbing.
And when we have a big one to fall, and I can see they are up to the task, I happily step aside.
Seeing the joy a green kid get's out of falling his/her first really big tree is priceless.

Since I'm kinda hooked on the whole romance of working in the woods, I try hard to pass that love of the work and pride in a difficult job well done, on to them.
I'm a decent botanist/mycologist/herpetologist/lepidopterologist , whatever and a damned good birder, so I'm constantly pointing out stuff to them.
If you are going to spend your life in the woods, might as well know the stuff that surronds you.

When I had forrester apprentices ( they used to have to do an 8 months internship as common woodsworkers/fallers) they had to pass a botany test later, so I'd bet them a round of pastries ( much valued amongst fallers here, lots of calories) whether they could identify a certain tree or plant.
Worked great, each and everyone of them have made top score on the test, when they were back in forestry school.

Richard is the one you should really ask, he is one of my old apprentices. In fact both the guys I work with today are.

My pictures are temporarily lost in cyberspace so all I have is this shot of an Apprentice taking out his first top.

P8080008.JPG
 
Nice, Stig.

One thing I've come to understand is that there's a whole different skillset to being good at a job like felling or climbing, and being good at teaching others those same skills.

I think people that are really good at both ends of that spectrum are far rarer than those who are good at one or the other. In both cases I think you really have to love what you do...lots of guys love cutting or climbing, but it seems few love spending the time to share their skills, or have the ability to communicate effectively.

But those rare ones are the mentors/teachers that we all remember best, and learn from best as well.
 
Greg, Three folks come to mind for me. All from Vt, Bill (previous employer) much in the nature of rigging and climbing. Joe from White River junction with ISA cert. Talks about preservation and prunning. And in the felling catagory, to many to list by the time I though about it and typed to here.;)
Mostly the reason I posted to Burnham's thread, how I learned being allowed to and solid instruction and the ability to question things and get an educated response.
 
I hated my main mentor with a passion, came to the conclusion that the only way to deal with him was to stab him in the throat.....his severity was endless for four years. I'm not at all proud of having thought like that, and he gave me something quite valuable. I'm pretty sure that he felt a similar thing about his mentor, a man who is still rather famous for his harshness, though he has been long dead. I can only regret that I took things so personally, it was a big hurdle to overcome and I was young.
 
I'm not much of a mentor, I try to teach my guys things as an opportunity presents. I have tried out alot of guys and they have all learned something from me even if it isn't much. I love the wonder, when you show someone who is truely interested, a totally new concept to them
 
I learned first hand from my father, not a good teacher or role model! Even to this day you don't dare get within four feet of him when he's running a chainsaw. A few years ago he was cutting a stump and asked me to help, even knowing I was there he flailed that saw around like madman and had my reflexes been any slower I would have certainly been cut in half. He's VERY dangerous and pays no attention to his surroundings, or who is in those surroundings.
BUT, I do recall despising him when I was younger having to carry the wood when all he had to do was simply run the chainsaw. He taught me little, but watching him I picked up a lot of how wood moved and why. I also gained a large idea of what not to do.
Reading and working with my mother, a certified Arborist back in the 80's, I learned how to properly prune and make good cuts in the tree, and how to keep it healthy when I did so.
I learned a lot more reading these forums on proper felling techniques and wedging, we'd never even heard of or seen a wedge during all of these years.
After a lot of hard lessons, self taught, I've finally figured a lot of things out and think I'm a half way decent faller, not worth a crap as a climber and probably never will be as I started so late in life.
I had one guy, like me thinking it was easy to run the saw and he was doing the hard work. After cutting off my thumb I had a tree down that needed cleaned up right now. I worked with him on that job teaching as we went. I explained how the tree would roll this way or that as he cut this branch or the other branch and how to keep from getting pinched when he'd do this or that cut.
It was an education for both of us, he realized, as I had earlier, running the saw isn't the cake walk you think it is, and there is a lot to have to look for and pay attention to when cutting up a blow down. I realized it's hard as hell to try and explain it to someone!
The job we had two summers ago in Arkansas City I had to cut him loose with a saw, there was too much for me to do by myself in the time I'd bid it. At the time I was just getting decent (Not good mind you) at ALAPing a tree on the felling cut, not the normal two or three ft high stump he was used to. He watched me a couple of times and thought he had it. I didn't force it and told him to do what he was comfortable with. At the end of the day he comes up, "Andy, I don't know how the hell you make that cut look so easy! It was hard as hell for me to line up the two cuts on these small tree's much less the big ones you took down!"
That made me feel pretty damn good that day! But it's darn hard to teach, I learned that in the Machine shops trying to teach people how to run machines that I hadn't even run! (The boss would say "Well, you know the controller, that's the worst of it, teach him that.) Much less trying to educate someone on something you have yet to fully understand.
I have a lot of respect for the members of this forum that can tolerate to answer, explain and make sure even I fully understand some of the things discussed on here.
 
My Dad used to take me out in the woods when I was quite young. About 5. He used to set me up to watch at a good distance. As I got older he let me get closer. He was a pretty good woodsman and enjoyed doing it. My one son has learned well and enjoys cutting too, the other one doesn't like it and kind of scares me. A little wild.

My stepson is kind of a klutz and I have impressed on him the extreme danger involved in cutting trees and running a saw. I thought I might have even gone a little overboard on stressing the danger-maybe make him nervous and jerky. He has made a lot of progress and had a couple scares to keep him from getting cocky.

I see stumps that tell me I really should give those people a lesson. They probably think they know what they are doing, and probably wouldn't appreciate any lessons or advice.
 
Where would any of us be without a true mentor or at least good teachers ... I've needed both , tried to be both... my buddy Mark taught lots about saw handling , firewood , Tree Falling and Identification , and how to "toughen up"... even Logging and how to run a respectable burn pile ... Climbing however was a little different , I too watched other climbers at work , and then (thankfully) Gerry published "Fundamentals" ... though we have never met personal or worked together , I consider him one of my mentor / teachers as well ....the knowledge is there to be shared , a good teacher works like a key , unlocking what is not understood ...
 
I admired the old-timers when I started out. Later on I learned some of them didn't know as much as they put on, but certainly a few of the others did. And those guys were the ones I stuck with and tried to learn the most from. It was all old school, but a good foundation to start on.
 

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Well I never claimed to be tree man but what I did learn mostly came from my dad in the beginning and I just picked up on it over the years .

Now as far as apprentices I'm in a different boat than most on this forum .I taught electrical apprenticeship classes for 12 years .I'm pround to say that of the hundred or so most turned out pretty well .Fact is I still work with two of them today that were in the first class I ever taught .They aren't kids any more ,both in their 50's .Time does fly .
 
The first knuckle. I cut it off between the knuckle and thumbnail, nothing like being in the ER as they cut your knuckle out for you.
I cringe every time I fire up a miter saw (what did that) or a table saw.
 
... I especially disliked ripping panels on the Powermatic when I did some furniture work ... the chainsaw with NO guards however doesn't bother me ...
 
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