SRT

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  • #126
The old Pantin certainly did work well enough, can they still be had? The advantage of being able to kick it off the line, for me was offset by it's lack of staying on at off rope angles. It is nice to know that with the CT, even if the rope tail is at an angle to the direction you want to travel, you will still be able to.

I still see many, even experienced climbers still struggling with hand ascenders over their SRT tools when rope walking. Two ascenders below, with a chest, over the shoulder, or neck strap to hold the multisender, keeps things tight and advancing smoothly with so much less effort.
 
I had the old Pantin (still have), but I can't correct the "operator error" for some raison and I felt it as unreliable: Either it lost the rope at the wrong time or I can't disengage it with the little kickback. That's too much for me, even if it's all my fault.
I'm happy with the CT. I have to put a finger to free the rope. But it stays as is, no mater what I do, and that's a good point for me.
Lol non climber.

Your redirects, do you tend to do natural redirects or more with via a biner and webbing loop. And then after you are done with your work off of the redi, you gotta climb back up to it and disconnect the biner etc, right?

The handled ascender and revolver sounds quite simple, that is nice. And the throwing hook, is that for grabbing a far out there redirect? Thanks
I use mostly my multipurposes slings and biners for redirects. I don't like the natural crotches because you get always a sawing effect with the wood's and rope's elasticity and that's not good, both for the rope and the thin bark. Of course I have to come back by the same way, almost, but the very good point is that I can have many redirects/ secondary tips across the crown and take a particular path without of worrying about the parasitic friction, limbs in the way ... It's so useful in the wide spreading trees and /or cluttered crowns. In march, it was to pollard at 60' a row of old lindens and this month to dead wood the big London planes. The most I went with is 6 redirects. I'm not a squirrel like some of you, but combined with my 16,6' telescopic pole, I can cover some nice sized crowns.

If the limbs are sturdy enough, I just pass the rope through the redirect's biner. If I have some concerns about side loading my TIP(s) /redirects, like in the regrowth on the pollarded lindens, I make a scaffold knot with the rope on the biner, easy on, easy out.
 
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  • #128
... I use mostly my multipurposes slings and biners for redirects. I don't like the natural crotches because you get always a sawing effect with the wood's and rope's elasticity and that's not good, both for the rope and the thin bark. Of course I have to come back by the same way...

I, on the other hand, will rarely use anything but the limb itself. You will always want to load a redirect in compression. When you do this you are maximizing the trees strength and sawing motion at that point will be minimal.

If the needed redirect point will create a side load, the first thing is to recognize the potential weakness of doing this. The second is to know how to mitigate that weakness, if possible.

One of the simplest ways is to tie off your line at that point. Instead of creating a side load, you will be making your line into a brace that will allow that point to support more weight than it originally could have. Think cabling dynamics.

This video is an example of a low cost and simple. retrievable redirect. You can skip over the first 2:30 minutes of talking if your rushed for time.




 
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Lol non climber.

Your redirects, do you tend to do natural redirects or more with via a biner and webbing loop. And then after you are done with your work off of the redi, you gotta climb back up to it and disconnect the biner etc, right?

The handled ascender and revolver sounds quite simple, that is nice. And the throwing hook, is that for grabbing a far out there redirect? Thanks


Alt? Not familiar with the acronym.... alternating lanyards? If I'm doing that, I'm using ddrt for that portion of the climb. For some reason i think that when people start climbing srt they see it as changing their climbing system rather than expanding it to do more stuff. If doing something ddrt is better, then by all means do that, but the more srt you climb the less you will use ddrt. It's simply another trick in the bag, that just so happens to become the default option, kinda like Google was years ago.

I personally don't redirect all the time, and if i do it's usually natural crotch depending on the goal. Some of the redirects get flat out crazy, and honestly many of them don't keep tension on the original tie in as much as you would think. Your question if you have to go back is the important one, because that's not always gonna happen. I usually approach it in 2 different ways, either long term redirects or fairly short term ones. The long term would be something like a redirect to a different leader to serve as a main tie in for a good portion of the tree, basically something that if i was doing ddrt i would move my main tie in to. These i will either set from the ground to start with (and when I'm done just traverse to the next one), nat crotch, sling with loop, or friction saver (very very handy for easily retrieved ones).

The other type would be quick set up, less time/ effort invested, usually for work positioning, ie limb walking. My personal favorite is the remotely settable, remotely retrievable, transferlizer? by Lawrence Schultz, which can be used in multiple ways but this is what i usually do. Since i use a really long double lanyard, here's the thought process: doing limb walk, getting leggy, so i look up and ahead. If I have a limb up and ahead that can hold my body weight, i double crotch, either normally or with a hook.

But what if it can't hold my weight? Time for a redirect then. Throw the line over and back to you like you are about to double crotch, but clip the end on the srt line (leave the throw weight on for easy retrieval). You can clip the hitch part to your bridge, or you can clip it to a choker around the limb you are standing on. Then, possibly with no lanyard and with weight on your climb line, haul the tie in closer to the redirect while letting line out on your main system, and when it's where you want tada now you have a tip all the way out there for you that possibly could never hold your weight, and you didn't have to climb there to set it or get it. If it's tied off to the tree you can just go about everything normally, if it's tied to you then you have to maintain two systems, but can adjust your tip to any point between the redirect or the tip.
 
Lotta good responses, thank you. I made a little progress today.

Cory, look at rigging that tether so it doesnt flop with the carabiner. A split tether and a shackle works. Or if you have a very small carabiner. . It is much more efficient if there is no flop in there.

Yup, so go figure, this is a key point:|: I have a stiff tether like the one in #118 on the left with a single eye on each end. So I need a good way to attach the tether to the ZZ. Nothing has worked right yet, the only 2 viable seeming ideas I have are use a biner with a rubber stopper to keep the tether eye from slipping down, or maybe a "Quickie" steel connector (the thing KB invented) to attach tether to ZZ, seems like it would be compact and potentially the ideal compact size.

Gratzi.
 
I have a HH1. Unused, to date. :|: . For now I want to keep pursuing the RW. I like the idea of not using hitch cord.
 
I don’t own a ZZ so just brainstorming a little while not really in the know.
Why not a locknut and bolt to attach tether to ZZ body? A shoulder bolt and washers or some type of bolt that doesn’t have threads where it’ll contact the ZZ and tether.
 
Yeah but I'd rather have something that doesn't require wrenches. I just ordered a Quickie, hopefully it'll fit.
 
My friend, Cory...you are totally missing the boat if you don't at least give the HH1 a try. Add a micro-pulley in for maximum tending, and it is a beautiful thing. If you need pics, there are some from me in here somewhere...let me know, and I'll try to run them down to link, or go back to my personal photo files and see if I can put them up here for you.
 
Right, wrenchs if you’re gonna take it off and use it for DdRT and SRT. But if that ZZ and RW combo is strictly SRT, then it can get bolted on and stay there semi permanently.
I was just thinking of ways to keep it rigid and reduce flop.
For sure though, get a Quickie and try it, and if you don’t like it, the Quickie has dozens of other uses. Can’t really go wrong.
There’s the Reon Rounds tether too. Looks pretty simple to fabricate, but was expensive to purchase if I remember right. 47B4322F-55E5-4A34-9122-AF70B94D90CA.jpg 39CF9BF7-CFA0-4E3D-9DF5-A4A1AA0DC59A.jpeg DE8FB314-1DDF-40E1-A619-AFC35A9DA75C.jpeg
 
I had my HH2 for a while before hooking it on a line. My HH is so good, why change?

Nothing to hit you in the teeth.

That HH is so simple and effective. Don't overlook it for all that complication, imo.
 
Good stuff, fellas, thank you.

Spent 7.25 hours up in the bucket today, taking down a humongous red oak, no crane access :whine: Thought plenty about SRT, during!
 
The gadgets have all arrived...now I gots to put them to use.

rocknrescue.com came thru great with the SAKA...quick service, no freight charge, threw in free 25' of Poseidon hitch cord. I got the PETZL - ROLLCLIP Z, Pulley-Carabiner, Triact-Lock on Amazon...supposed to be good for redirects...maybe use it for 3:1 setup to return to debarkation point?

saka.jpg
 
Looks good, let us know!

The pulley biner looks sweet too, but I was just wondering, would a non pulley biner work pretty well too given that it is 3-1, lotta force there so maybe the pulley can be done without, in a pinch at least.

I rec'd the Quickie by notch, it won't be the solution sought to connect the RW tether to ZZ cuz it is still too large=floppy, but it is a sweet piece of gear, hard to not remove and replace that slick pin over and over and over....
 
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  • #145
Those pulley carabiners from Petzl make a huge difference in smoothness and reducing effort. You will definitely feel it when compared to using a standard carabiner.

I still am having some difficulty in your thinking of 'not' trying the HH you say you have. SRT is one of those things that when the setup is just right, everything works great. Conversely, get one component that makes it a struggle and the whole advantage seems to be lost.
 
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  • #147
This is another clean setup.

 
Those pulley carabiners from Petzl make a huge difference in smoothness and reducing effort. You will definitely feel it when compared to using a standard carabiner.

I still am having some difficulty in your thinking of 'not' trying the HH you say you have. SRT is one of those things that when the setup is just right, everything works great. Conversely, get one component that makes it a struggle and the whole advantage seems to be lost.

Thanks for your input re the pulley biner.

Though I'm barely scratching the surface re SRT, yes I believe you are totally correct re just the right set up. The problem quite simply seems to be my stiff tether- it has an eye on each end but what I need is a single eye on one end and a split eye /or twin eyes/or double eyes on the other end. So I'm going to try to cobble together an added eye for the tether, if it works then great and if it doesn't work, perhaps I'll nevertheless be able to tell if I'm on the right track and then buy a more proper tether
 
Ok, I just checked it out on the pull up bar.

The jury-rigged split eye thing worked well enough. And then I untied that and got the Quickie to work as the tether attachment point. Think all I need for a sweet set up is the split eye stiff tether with the Quickie
 
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  • #150
Cory, when you think it is right and working well, take a picture and post it.
 
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