Packsaddle Grove is gone!

That sucks. Living out west in fire territory would bum me out. Get used to seeing stuff around that looks like it'll be there forever, then gone in a weekend.
 
Well that's a crying shame right there. I much prefer your photos Stig, to the devastation depicted on that website.

I hate that I often haunt burnscars, picking at the blacked bones for scraps of profit, swearing at the wasted potential...
 
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  • #6
That was a different grove in 2011..
Packsaddle is about a mile long hike in from a forest service road.
I originally chose that one, because it was the most remote grove, that was still accessible by car.
Wanted to find a place with no rangers, you know.
It was a really wild grove, completely untouched by humans. Last nesting place of the California Condor.
All the guidebooks said, Rugged terrain, no trails, only suitable for experienced hikers.
Really a fantastic place and now it is gone.
Bums me out!
 
Instead of fire suppression there should have been more control burns.

In a lot of wild areas today, most probably, environmental laws do not allow control burns. Nothing.

Let it burn, all naturally. Remember Yellowstone?

Just my opinion.
 
Geez that sucks but thx for the info. Kind of ironic those fire scars on the trees in your pics.
 
Fire adapted ecosystems need fire. When mankind decided to start putting out the fires, we also, soon after, decided not to remove the material the fire burned off, resulting in fire adapted ecosystems being compromised. Now timbering needs done, but every time a sale block comes up, a bunch of enviroMENTALists sue the government forcing any work on the block to come to a screeching halt for years or even decades at a time. Often this results in fires burning off the valuable timber before the contractor can even begin. Nobody wins.
 
For a long time, extraordinary effort has been put into extinguishing fires quickly. And they got very good at it. A little too good, as it turns out. Instead of many small controllable fires here and there, that excess fuel led to huge uncontrollable infernos.
Ok, thanks.
 
So many of what used to be our favorite places to hike and backpack have been lost to fires over the last 25 years or so. Mostly in Idaho and Oregon, but also in California and Washington state.

M and I lament with you, @stig. It truly is heartbreaking.

Don't forget this thread...I never will.
 
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I should have known, of course, that me posting this would start a " Let us blame forest fires on the environmentalists ( Read: lefties)" thing.

Funny thing is, when you take a look at the worst fires in recorded history in the US, 7 out of ten occured before the word " Environmentalist" was even coined.

But of course not before the Finnish started "Raking their forests" they have done than since forever.

 
I live smack dab between the two largest fire scars in the state of Arizona. Rodeo-Chedeski and Bear Wallow. Over a million acres razed to the ground between just those two fires.

A million acres of the largest contiguous stand of ponderosa pine in the world.

Left, right, or center, bad policy is bad policy.

That said, it sure as hell wasn't MY fault that either one of those fires got so out of hand. Maybe I'm a little oversensitive about this particular topic, but I also live the the driest area of the western forests, where we're often overlooked in favor of California, Oregon and Washington.

Also, how could you not have expected this thread to raise some ire toward bad policy and those who wrote it?

And another thing, those seven fires you brought up? All occurred before wide-spread motorization/mechanization of such efforts. Hell of a lot easier to manage forest fires with a bulldozer than a shovel. The most recent of the aforementioned 7 fires was 1933. I'm sure there was a ton of fire fighting infrastructure in place.

Beyond that, what kind of measure is deadliest fires? What are we more concerned with, extraneous humans, or the great and sacred trees?
 
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  • #22
If you are asking me personally, frig humans, the planet is teeming with them.

My point, which you obviously missed, was if environmentalists are to blame for forest fires, how come there were larger forest fires before environmentalists were invented.
John Muir wasn't even born yet.

Also, here is another one for you, Black mountain grove was clearcut of " Whire wood" in early 1980es leaving only the Sequoias standing.
I've seen pictures og the Black Mountain Beauty standing on what looks like a lawn, nothing left underneath.
None the less most of the grove burnt in the Pier fire in 2017 and Black Mountain Beauty, while alive, is burnt to a crisp.
How did that happen?
Did they maybe forget to rake it.
 
If there's one thing we can agree on, I reckon misanthropy is it.

I let the Finnish forest raking thing go over my head, never heard of it, I'll have to look into it. Sounds like it could be a pretty sweet gig...

And I addressed your point. Modern fires (in America) are typically fought with incredible vigor. Most folks back in the day had the good sense to get clear of the fire and stay that way. A Boeing 747, converted to a slurry tanker, bombing firelines with thousands of gallons of (certianly not carcinogenic) red fire retardant, can't possibly contribute to smaller fires.

In 1933 as an example, there simply wasn't the massive wildland fire fighting system than could be brought to bear against those fires. Today, literally thousands of men, bulldozers, tank trucks, slurry bombing airplanes, water dropping helicopters, etc., can be deployed in a matter of hours, or at most, days.

Today, 101 years later, a few men with chainsaws and a Catapillar D9 can do in hours what would have taken dozens of men days of backbreaking work.

Too bad some folks with the best of intentions have caused "Enviromental Preservation Concerns" to become so bloated as to dissalow large, effective fire brakes to be cut, even as the fires race towards such beloved trees as the Black Mountain Beauty. Without looking into it at all, I'd say from your description, that the tree was likely scorched bybthe intense heat of the surrounding blaze, despite being in the middle of a "lawn" as you put it. Had the fire been cut off well before then, the tree wouldn't be a topic of such discussion.

Personally, I'm not a grey area, middle ground kinda guy on this topic, either fight the forest fires, no holds barred, or let em burn.
 
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  • #24
The Finnish raking thing is from Trump visiting a fire area and declaring that they don't have forest fires in Finland, because they rake their forsets.
Totally cracked the Finns up. Youtube was full of videos of Finns running wild in the woods with rakes.
 
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