Hard leaning Alder felling

I disagree with the "5-10% is ideal" concept ... I think 1-2" hinge thickness is a better way of putting it... % if diameter isn't much of a factor.. on Eastern hardwoods, in situations where you need a lot of control from the hinge, 3-4+" diameter is usually better, again not having much to do with diameter. The main concern with hinges that thick is not trunks splitting or hinge shattering, but simply the ability to pull a tree with a hinge that thick. That's where pulling with equipment excels.. if you are wedging, or pulling by hand, hinges in the 3-4" range are going to be problematic... If you aren't familiar with pulling trees with equipment and high lines don't bother arguing the point. I've dropped many trees that would chocolate your pants.

This may not hold true for western conifers. Probably does though.
 
murphy4trees said:
I disagree with the "5-10% is ideal" concept ... I think 1-2" hinge thickness is a better way of putting it... % if diameter isn't much of a factor.. on Eastern hardwoods, in situations where you need a lot of control from the hinge, 3-4+" diameter is usually better, again not having much to do with diameter. The main concern with hinges that thick is not trunks splitting or hinge shattering, but simply the ability to pull a tree with a hinge that thick. That's where pulling with equipment excels.. if you are wedging, or pulling by hand, hinges in the 3-4" range are going to be problematic... If you aren't familiar with pulling trees with equipment and high lines don't bother arguing the point. I've dropped many trees that would chocolate your pants.

This may not hold true for western conifers. Probably does though.
Click to expand...
Ok.
I assume you didn't do the math, but you win.
 
Jerry has a good section on block faces in his book. Ray, my understand in that the back cut location is the same as with a sharp apex type hinge, even to or slightly above the top cut of the blocked out face. I like a higher back cut on trees that have to come a long way to favour the lay. It's a feel good thing, but height of back cut seems a debatable point.

One of the reasons that I like the Tirfor pulling device so much, is that you can adjust your amount of hinge while observing how things are going. How much is the guy sweating and groaning at the Tirfor end. :lol: Liking the 1.6 ton puller that just came into the fold to supplement the 3/4 ton. The reel of 11mm cable isn't light, though.
 
stig said:
Put a block face in trees that you have to pull against a lot of lean.
That has the best flexibility of the fibers in the hinge, and won't break so early.

Jerry B. told me that when we were riding along highway 1 , enjoying the view and discussing tree falling.

As I recall, he said that in his experience, the block face had the best ability to retain strength in the hinge,. because it allowed the fibers to bens.

Something like that, anyway.

I've used it on pull trees ever since, with great succes ( Never lost one yet)

Care to elaborate, Jerry?
Click to expand...

Hope Jerry comes to address this, but in the interim, I agree with what my friend Stig says.
 
murphy4trees said:
I disagree with the "5-10% is ideal" concept ... I think 1-2" hinge thickness is a better way of putting it... % if diameter isn't much of a factor.. on Eastern hardwoods, in situations where you need a lot of control from the hinge, 3-4+" diameter is usually better, again not having much to do with diameter. The main concern with hinges that thick is not trunks splitting or hinge shattering, but simply the ability to pull a tree with a hinge that thick. That's where pulling with equipment excels.. if you are wedging, or pulling by hand, hinges in the 3-4" range are going to be problematic... If you aren't familiar with pulling trees with equipment and high lines don't bother arguing the point. I've dropped many trees that would chocolate your pants.

This may not hold true for western conifers. Probably does though.
Click to expand...


I know much better than to get in this discussion, but my normal degree of reticence is overcome by my dislike of the arrogance I perceive here...so please pardon my less than polite wording.

Murph, you are full of feculence.
 
murphy4trees said:
The math kinda works out on your average tree, but not really so much when you get into big or little trees...
Click to expand...
Served me well on big and small but I'm a lucky sort.
Burnham said:
I know much better than to get in this discussion, but my normal degree of reticence is overcome by my dislike of the arrogance I perceive here...so please pardon my less than polite wording.

Murph, you are full of feculence.
Click to expand...
I gotta look that up, I'm intrigued
 
I, too, thought about a full block face. In that size tree, I'd blow it out with the ax. Beware strong spiral grain with a gap-face (not an issue here). Boring the vertical portion that establishes the front of the hinge, will hide discontinuity of grain compared to busting it out.

If you have a big gap to bust out, A vertical bore cut in the front of the face, with a good wide wedge will help, as well as a wedge in one horizontal kerf or the other.
 
Climbhigh said:
"4" hinge is probably too much to reflexible and do an actual hinging action, Probably took quite a hard pull, unless they are decayed. Are they solid, green trees"

Good to know, I was under the opposite impression. all these are green no decay 14-16 " diameter. Was using the drum winch on a cat with 3/4 cable so no hard pull, lol
Click to expand...

Being easy on the cat doesn't count :).

When you have a cat and a cable stronger than the tree, a tree like that doesn't need a face, just put your foot down. :lol: Just kidding.





Only pretension a little, so the tree is still sorta at rest. Not sitting down on your back-cut, nor opening up. Cut it up, clear out. Pull.

If you're in the woods (in the clear) and have that kinda power, it would be informative to make few test spars by popping a few alders off with high stumps, face them again with various cuts and pull to failure or folding the hinge over.
 
Burnham said:
I know much better than to get in this discussion, but my normal degree of reticence is overcome by my dislike of the arrogance I perceive here...so please pardon my less than polite wording.

Murph, you are full of feculence.
Click to expand...

Feels good to draw you out of your self-imposed boycott of all things Murf... But c'mon now... that kind of name calling really isn't fair.. As Brian said back at AS circa 2003, "we're all just a bunch of dumb tree cutters".. :)
Give the boys a break and just call me an a$$hole.. If the shoe fits I'll wear it... I haven't touched a saw since the blizzard hit three weeks ago.. Got a slight case of cabin fever and just looking for a little action...

To that end I shall respond as follows:

When your normal imperturbable demeanor is exasperated with such facility, your ad hominem response is clearly out of character. Such a censorious and irascible reply is an unequivocal indication that you are projecting your own shadows on some chimerical effigy you perceive only through a small screen. In short sir, you hide, repress and deny the very same flaws of character within yourself that you envisage in me.

LOL

ps... never too late for a dumb tree cutter to work on his vocabulary
 
treebilly said:
Stig when you block face, do you saw cut the vertical part or break it out with your maul?
Click to expand...

I break it out if it is the kind of tree where that is possible.
Most here aren't.

But since I'm just a dumb logger and not " familiar with pulling trees with equipment and high lines " you probably shouldn't listen to me.

You'd be better off listening to the arrogant skid steer driver who has " dropped many trees that would chocolate your pants."

Must be nice to have that much self esteem, deserved or not.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #45
" I've dropped many trees that would chocolate your pants. "

Fetch me my brown pants, we need to fell some trees.
 
Thanks Stig. I've never really done a true block face. I was just curious on how you handled them. I was guessing that you being a seasoned feller would knock them out.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #48
Yes thank you for a very informative and entertaining thread.
 
I had to go looking for the original chocolate comment, it was aimed at me I guess. I tend to skim long posts so I missed it. Might have to go check my videos and make sure I'm wearing my brown pants for coverage, hate to have a stain on camera.
 
Just make fishing lures so no biggie.
86625ce77e8e7bd3cadf7d1d09b92366.jpg
 
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