Hard leaning Alder felling

[Climbhigh]

I have several 14 -18 " diameter 75 ' red alder to take out . they are all leaning hard and on a steep bank. Any good felling tips that will help prevent splitting, or should I run a strap around above the cut ? Also have a few to pull over against the lean, would you notch them or just backcut and rely on the outside wood for a hinge ?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Yes, strap those suckers.

And I'd slap a narrow notch on those others...

 

[Burnham]

Coos Bay cut...do a search here for details. There are a couple of variations. Another choice might be the so-called golden triangle. The Brit/European crowd may have more input on that felling cut, though it's not unknown here stateside.

 

[stig]

I don't use straps, but a locking chain.
Once you've got them chained or strapped good, just go with an ordinary bore cut and release.

Chaining/ strapping negates the risk of barberchairing 100% so no rreason to use a non-directional cut like the Coos bay, once you've done that.

Too lazy to do that, Coos bay is your choice of weapon.

 

[Climbhigh]

Coos Bay seems like a good way to limit bar pinch. Looks similar to what I've used on heavy limbs before, never felling though. And the chain thing. thanks

 

[sotc]

Sharpen your chain and use an 8 pin rim

 

[greengreer]

I have no direct experience with alders but 99% of the leaners I cut just get a standard bore cut. The huge ones or the ones with some serious splits and cracks get a chain binder but that is less than one a year or so.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

I agree with all the above.

In Jerry's FOTG it stipulates to use a Sharp and powerful saw, so worth repeating.



It was suggested to me not to cut with the lean, but off to the side of it. I guess it is to effectively reduce the loading directly along the neutral plane.


Where are you located, Climbhigh? PNW?



Alders are reputed as killers. I heard, very second-hand, that an experienced guy got a bad faceful around here when he was where he shouldn't have been. 8+ years ago.

 

[Burnham]

If the tree has sufficient diameter to take a bored back cut, that's a great choice too...except for the truly horrendous head leaners.

Stig's right too, of course. Bind the thing, no real worries after that.

 

[Jed]

Where are you located, Climbhigh? PNW?

Pretty sure that here's the only place they grow Sean.

They suck though, brothers... be careful.

As to your last question, sir, about pulling the back-leaners... heck I wouldn't have any idea. Doesn't sound like any fun though, in the least!

 

[treebilly]

If they're prone to splitting, strap them up. I know nothing of alder but that's how I would handle it. I think.

 

[Burnham]

Stig makes mention of being too lazy to bind generating the need to Coos Bay cut heavy leaning alders, or anything else with the propensity to barberchair if you look at them wrong...

There were so many days I cleared snow loaded alders off of roads in my USFS road maintenance years, sometimes upwards of a hundred in a day, and usually smaller diameters, too small for bored back cuts... binding would just take too much time in those situations, even if my laziness wasn't a real factor . Coos Bay cuts made it "relatively" safe.

 

[Jed]

"relatively" safe.

Yup. Best we can do sometimes.

 

[Burnham]

Long bars allow the cutter to stand back some, better than short bars do . Another case of "relatively" safer.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

Absolutely face-cut the ones you will pull over. Chain those. Put the binder on the underside, so the log doesn't flop onto it.
Chaining a good safety measure. Easy if you're doing residential.
Beware side lean.



Jed, I figured he's maybe near us. I don't know what people figure to be PNW. I was trying to figure that out in Canada, Ay. Is it PSW north of 48 degrees?

FWIW, I googled.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alnus_rubra
Alaska to spotty areas in So Cal. Idaho, too.


There is some scrubby white alder in the Ruby mountains of Nevada, IIRC. High elevation, everything was short, aspen, too.

Don't know what else is out there.

 

[stig]

Burnham, remember the super slanted back cut for when the tree is too small to bore conventionally.


I mostly use the chain when I try to pull an ash or another prone to split type, and want as much hinge wood as I can get.

Being the patron saint of borecutters, I naturally just bore most leaners.
I just like to point the chaining method out to non-loggers, since it is the absolute safest way of dealing with bad leaners.

And I totally agree on the long bar thing for that kind of work.
I also drag the long bars with me in the woods when I free cut storm blown timber.

 

[Jed]

Long bars allow the cutter to stand back some, better than short bars do . Another case of "relatively" safer.

Now we're just redneckin', B.... which I totally approve. I'll see your and Stig's long-bar, and raise you to an arborist stick-saw.

Sean: That's interesting stuff... had no idea they grew even that far.

 

[stig]

I can just picture you prancing around with a stick saw on a logging operation, Jed

 

[Burnham]

I do indeed recall that slant back cut, now that you mention it Stig. Never employed it myself,which is clearly a gap in my experiences that I ought to have remedied years ago.

Maybe you ought to 'splain it for the poor benighted youngsters come lately to the 'House .

Jed...stick saw, huh? Well, I've seen (and dealt with ) one or two situations where a bugger like that would not have been amiss. Never had one, so just reach waaaaay out there with 36 inches of bar on a 066 and hope for the best .

Survived them all, so I suppose that's one definition of success.

 

[Climbhigh]

Got the back pull leaners pulled over Ok. Had one snap off a 4" hinge just as it came up past vertical. Was thinking putting a couple of chains on either side of the spar and stump might be quicker than setting up 2 pull lines to control things if it was critical , kind of like a chain hinge.

 

[Climbhigh]

"Burnham, remember the super slanted back cut for when the tree is too small to bore conventionally."

Ive used that on small tops if I was worried they might hang up and kick the but back. Is that cut meant to help limit a barberchair or just contain one? If the latter it sounds like my saw is going to be stuck in the tree.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

I have several 14 -18 " diameter 75 ' red alder to take out . they are all leaning hard and on a steep bank. Any good felling tips that will help prevent splitting, or should I run a strap around above the cut ? Also have a few to pull over against the lean, would you notch them or just backcut and rely on the outside wood for a hinge ?

4" hinge is probably too much to be flexible and do an actual hinging action, Probably took quite a hard pull, unless they are decayed. Are they solid, green trees?

25% of the diameter for the hinge thickness is a lot. Too thick of a hinge will induce a split, too.

We were pulling a 120'+, hard-enough back-leaning, decayed hemlock away from a CCC building once. Definitely didn't want to have the hinge fail. It was a bit too thick. Lack of radios kept me from stopping the winching, and thinning the hinge. It started to split the stump. All ended up going to plan, but I'd have rather stopped the action for a little nip at the hinge. I don't think we chained that one, as it was hemlock. I wouldn't have minded a chain above and below on that one, in hindsight. Cheap insurance.

 

[Climbhigh]

"4" hinge is probably too much to reflexible and do an actual hinging action, Probably took quite a hard pull, unless they are decayed. Are they solid, green trees"

Good to know, I was under the opposite impression. all these are green no decay 14-16 " diameter. Was using the drum winch on a cat with 3/4 cable so no hard pull, lol

 

[sotc]

Yeah, 5-10% is generally ideal

 

[stig]

Put a block face in trees that you have to pull against a lot of lean.
That has the best flexibility of the fibers in the hinge, and won't break so early.

Jerry B. told me that when we were riding along highway 1 , enjoying the view and discussing tree falling.

As I recall, he said that in his experience, the block face had the best ability to retain strength in the hinge,. because it allowed the fibers to bens.

Something like that, anyway.

I've used it on pull trees ever since, with great succes ( Never lost one yet)

Care to elaborate, Jerry?