Altissimus
TreeHouser
I always liked the saying re setting chokers, "In for your job, out for your life!"[/QUOTE] Copy that I think that a "Game" might not include running for your FN life
N
NeTree
Guest
Haha.. My favorite saying... "If you see ME running, try to keep up!"
Altissimus
TreeHouser
Damm Right Erik , I was working with a "Kid" no shit that is his nickname , he had a REAL close call two days ago with 3 phase 480V .... It is good to walk away , or RUN...
S
Swe#kipp
Guest
I don't know how the GOL works in the state but here (Sweden) they have different felling courses not just the bore cut "method" they do even teach the humboldt cut, but I agree to the preaching they do it here to 
Dave Shepard
Square peg, round world.
I saw some GOL footage a few years back. They were pushing some bizarre wide open face cut that would get you thrown out of the woods around here.
Altissimus
TreeHouser
Hey SK... other than a complete FALSE sense of mastery... the other main problem I have with GOL is the endosrement of bore cutting for ROOKIES , I know why they feel this way (i.e. control of directional falling to the last second , allowing faller escape).... I consider bore cuts an advanced technique not to be learned without lotsa of hours of convetional cuts....
S
Swe#kipp
Guest
I don't defend the GOL I just think any faller/logger should be open to both new and old technics, the person i have learnd most from is a man who has logging all his life (70 years old) the "oldtimers" has nice tricks to teach and if you combine them to fit your needs it can't be a bad thing right !?
Altissimus
TreeHouser
Grey Beard Power !!!
N
NeTree
Guest
Gray beard my ass... that's why I use "Just for Men". HAHA!
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Nawwwww.. I just shave .. LMAO
I totally disagree on that. I start my apprentises up by telling them to borecut all trees that have some size to them. Then when they learn to figure lean, which is a lot more tricky in hardwoods than in softwoods, they are allowed to cut from the back.
You won't get "lots of hours of conventional cuts" if your first big headleaner kills you.
GASoline71
'cause chicks dig scars
Or an errant bore cut by a rookie results in kickback and you cut an artery FFS...
Teaching rookies/apprentices one of their first fallin' techniques to be a bore cut seems a little dangerous. Bore cutting is so overrated and used waaaaayyyyy too often. Mostly by rookies that think it is some sort of hocus pocus magical way to put a tree on the ground.
It's a dangerous technique that should only be employed when the need arrises... not for every stinkin' tree... :what:
Gary
I have two things to say to that:
One, we use WAY shorter bars than americans, having long ago evolved beyond the point where we could only fell a tree, if we could reach all the way through from one side.
Shorter bars give better control against kickback.
Second: The use of skiptooth chain is almost nonexisting in Europe ( reason, see above!!) Full complemented chain has reduced kickback.
Heck, since it's sunday I'll give you a third reason for free: Using shorter bars, our falling tecnique revolves around being good at boring, if you can't bore well, you have no business being in the woods here.Hardwoods are a lot more unforgiving as to barberchairing, than your PNW softwoods.
How can you call boring dangerous? I simply don't get that. Don't you use a gauge for filing rakers?
One, we use WAY shorter bars than americans, having long ago evolved beyond the point where we could only fell a tree, if we could reach all the way through from one side.
Shorter bars give better control against kickback.
Second: The use of skiptooth chain is almost nonexisting in Europe ( reason, see above!!) Full complemented chain has reduced kickback.
Heck, since it's sunday I'll give you a third reason for free: Using shorter bars, our falling tecnique revolves around being good at boring, if you can't bore well, you have no business being in the woods here.Hardwoods are a lot more unforgiving as to barberchairing, than your PNW softwoods.
How can you call boring dangerous? I simply don't get that. Don't you use a gauge for filing rakers?
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Stig if you're in consistently large wood a long bar is going to be way faster than cutting from both sides with a short bar, way faster. So I'm not sure that evolution has anything to do with it. Unless you're speaking in regards to how trees have evolved on the west coast.
And Stig I don't use a gauge for filing rakers I file by feel the same way you fall trees.
And Stig I don't use a gauge for filing rakers I file by feel the same way you fall trees.
lumberjack
Young man on the go
Stig, in your Denmarkian honor, I dropped a 28-30" butt with a 12" bar, yesterday.
It took a while, but that might have something to do with the powerhead.
It took a while, but that might have something to do with the powerhead.
N
NeTree
Guest
Stig, us Americans can't help it we have longer bars.
I get by with the 346 and 16" bar for most things here on the east coast. If you start your bore cut correctly, kickback isn't an issue.
I get by with the 346 and 16" bar for most things here on the east coast. If you start your bore cut correctly, kickback isn't an issue.
SkwerI
Treehouser
Not to mention that in the PNW it isn't always possible to cut the tree from both sides due to the terrain.
Stig, your condescending attitude might be more appropriate over at Arbtalk. They seem to enjoy looking down their noses at Americans almost as much as you do. :what:
lumberjack
Young man on the go
I wouldn't go that far, B, but I would say that his three reasons for bore cutting are all tied back to a shorter bar.
4 cuts is never faster than 3.
Having the ability to remove a tree 2.5+ times longer than your bar is a skill that can come in handy, but it doesn't mean it's something you should do on every tree.
More importantly, what's the practical advantage to a shorter bar?
4 cuts is never faster than 3.
Having the ability to remove a tree 2.5+ times longer than your bar is a skill that can come in handy, but it doesn't mean it's something you should do on every tree.
More importantly, what's the practical advantage to a shorter bar?
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
Don't get me wrong, I'm not into carrying around more weight or length then I need to, but imo your bar should span the majority of the wood you'll be cutting.
What the heck has happened to your sense of humour?
Didn't it survive the election.
When I used the word "evolved" I was joking. I actually thought that was pretty obvious, but like I've said before, I'm writing in a language not that's not my own, so sometime the finer nuances may get by me.
I don't honestly believe I can plead guilty to being condescending towards americans, and since you apparently were the only one who didn't get the fact that I was merely jesting, maybe your skin is a little too thin!
How can you look at the post I was answering, and accuse ME of condescension?
Anyway, there are regional differences in how we do things, and if I can't be allowed to punk you guys for doing it different from the way I do it without offending people, then maybe I should move over to arbtalk, whatever that may be.
Hell, I actually really pissed off now. Didn't think something in a netforum could do that to me, what do you know?
squisher
THE CALM ONE!!!!
I wouldn't sweat it none the Skwerlyman is an angry dude at times.
I enjoy discussing this sorts of stuff with someone from across the globe, even if some of your ideas are whack!
Your input/insights are apreciated.
There's nothing wrong with a lively debate and yes humor can be hard to put into words on the internet. That's why we have smilies.
I enjoy discussing this sorts of stuff with someone from across the globe, even if some of your ideas are whack!
Your input/insights are apreciated.
There's nothing wrong with a lively debate and yes humor can be hard to put into words on the internet. That's why we have smilies.
Reddog
TreeHouser
Well Stig, I hope you don't leave us.
I enjoy reading your posts on felling.
Your earlier post hit on good reasons why most here do not use the bore cut method.
Most of the members have never worked in a full on production pulp and saw log outfit. They could not get away with the same technique on hardwoods that they use in softwood.
Wally
I enjoy reading your posts on felling.
Your earlier post hit on good reasons why most here do not use the bore cut method.
Most of the members have never worked in a full on production pulp and saw log outfit. They could not get away with the same technique on hardwoods that they use in softwood.
Wally
lumberjack
Young man on the go
But about using those short bars?.....
GASoline71
'cause chicks dig scars
Actually I wasn't being condescending towards you either stig... just questioning why you were preaching the whole bore cut thing...
Gary
Gary
That's okay, gary. I just got a little bit of steam pressure buildt up there for a while. I've cooled of again now.
As for the bore cut. Some of the hardwoods here are very prone to splitting. If you look at some of the photos of mature beech forest I posted under " what is the biggest problem....." in odds and ends, you'll see some long treetrunks with no knots to hold them together. When they split, they go awfully fast.
Also figuring lean in hardwoods is hard for beginners.
Since the way we fall consists of: make facecut, bore in behind hinge to be and run the saw around the tree, pulling the saw out and plunging it in again take very little time.
Another thing is I'll bore the face if I have to put a tree down in very little room between other trees, Then I'll aim it a little to the left so it just hits the outer branches on another tree and as the it starts to fall, use the tip of the bar to cut the left hinge off. That'll make the tree rotate clockwise and "screw" itself down between the obstacle trees. You can get a large tree down in surprisinly little room that way, and not break too many branches off of the standing trees.
The tree in the photo split from hitting one one codominant leader, but it's the only split beech picture I have.
When I worked in Switzerland, they had a saying:" The beech will try to take your life, till it lies in the stove". It sounds better in Swiss.
As for the bore cut. Some of the hardwoods here are very prone to splitting. If you look at some of the photos of mature beech forest I posted under " what is the biggest problem....." in odds and ends, you'll see some long treetrunks with no knots to hold them together. When they split, they go awfully fast.
Also figuring lean in hardwoods is hard for beginners.
Since the way we fall consists of: make facecut, bore in behind hinge to be and run the saw around the tree, pulling the saw out and plunging it in again take very little time.
Another thing is I'll bore the face if I have to put a tree down in very little room between other trees, Then I'll aim it a little to the left so it just hits the outer branches on another tree and as the it starts to fall, use the tip of the bar to cut the left hinge off. That'll make the tree rotate clockwise and "screw" itself down between the obstacle trees. You can get a large tree down in surprisinly little room that way, and not break too many branches off of the standing trees.
The tree in the photo split from hitting one one codominant leader, but it's the only split beech picture I have.
When I worked in Switzerland, they had a saying:" The beech will try to take your life, till it lies in the stove". It sounds better in Swiss.
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