Directional control of limbs while aloft

[flushcut]

So the past week we've been taking apart three large silver maples. While I was making cuts I had to "put a little English" on the cuts i.e. pulling the undercut to one side or the other sometimes incorporating a tapered hinge to get the limbs to swing in the clear.

I am not sure if this is even worth talking about or if it's a bad idea.
Anybody else tickle the undercut and back cut?

 

[Altissimus]

... like when Ray Price hired a young Willie Nelson , asked Willie if he played Bass , Willie replied "doesn't everybody ?"

 

[Treeaddict]

Do you still put a rope in it for security or rely solely on the cut? Probably depends on potential consequences if cut fails to act as intended?

 

[Mick!]

If you’re talking about what I think you’re talking about, yes, for sure.

Very species dependent though, try it on a deodar you’ll get very little swing before it goes, spruce will go round the corner, buy you a donut and coffee and come back before it will let go.

I will use it to avoid shrubs or low value stuff, real targets below mean a rope.

 

[flushcut]

Do you still put a rope in it for security or rely solely on the cut? Probably depends on potential consequences if cut fails to act as intended?

With a rope and without a rope.

The limb that got me thinking was probably 25' long and if I cut it as it leaned it would have hung up int another tree so I wanted to pull it to the left using just the undercut and back cut. All went fine and swung in as intended. But then it got me thinking about all the different felling cuts Siswheel, Whizzy, Dutchman...... Does anybody use those types of cut on limbs or something similar?

 

[Mick!]

With a rope and without a rope.

The limb that got me thinking was probably 25' long and if I cut it as it leaned it would have hung up int another tree so I wanted to pull it to the left using just the undercut and back cut. All went fine and swung in as intended. But then it got me thinking about all the different felling cuts Siswheel, Whizzy, Dutchman...... Does anybody use those types of cut on limbs or something similar?

The only issue I’ve had with directional cuts is the line between asking a branch to do a little bit and asking too much of it, ie the direction cut is too high up the branch between 2 and 5 o’clock rather than 3 and 7 o’clock.
My nephew always asked too much (when learning) and it would just snap off rather than turn a bit.

Never done anything other than a standard gob cut.

 

[lxskllr]

I seem to be able to manipulate little stuff better than I can big. I can't do a nice felling cut to save my life, but I've done some tricks with little stuff. My best move to date was swinging a hemlock branch around and tumbling it over the service lines, missing everything. Probably just luck :^D I've never done any real fancy cutting. Just standard cuts with varying geometry to try to do what I want.

 

[stig]

I do it a lot, but when I really want to turn a limb, having the groundie set a throwline in it and pulling, is the way I'll go.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Snap cut or gob. Rope pulling if I really need it to swing round on a thicker hinge.
Like Mick pointed out, species dependant.
Then when in doubt, rope it out.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I will "english" a limb with my saw. Push the butt a certain way as I nip through to make a branch turn to land in a zone. Or by hand if safe. Finish the cut with a handsaw and rotate the limb with a hand as it leaves.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

The directional cut works well but has it limitations like many techniques, the species and wood's quality playing a big part. Usually, I don't use the more complicated cuts in the limbs, as it's trickier to make them right aloft. Before the serious limbs, I try on some other ones, smaller or not at risk, to get an idea of the behavior of this particular tree (it may differ from the typical type of the specie). Some are just hopeless.

Even with a good one, the bad moment arrives when you ask too much of a swing, set a near vertical hinge and then the limb doesn't want to move laterally on its own. You thin a bit more the hinge waiting for a move. The hinge just tears off. It's the same with some oddly balanced limbs.
It's way easier to get the wanted swing if you take part of the limb's weight by a tip tying. Then the directional cut can do its job nicely.
An important point: take your time for the release cut. Let the gravity to do its thing slowly. The limb takes a moment to start moving and until then, you need a good bunch of fibers to keep holding the massive load. If you cut too fast, it's easy to go too far and the hinge fails before all is put in motion.

 

[SeanKroll]

Easier to use tricks than get another person involved with roping something down.

Easier to rope something down than explain about broken things and need for forgiveness or repairs.

Risk and reward.

 

[gf beranek]

"Easier to rope something down than explain about broken things and need for forgiveness or repairs."

Yep.

 

[Bermy]

Pretty much what everyone else said.
English for a nice little turn on something smaller, add a rope when the consequences of failure are bad.

 

[Eric H-L]

I hear you all saying that it is often? usually? More difficult without a rope. I watched a tree worker swinging branches with groundie pulling a rope and it was like black magic to me. I can’t imagine the experience it takes to make it go where you want, even with rope. I just saw a video that I think is the rope version. It’s hard for me to see where the tree, the branch, the puller -and the targets were.

 

[gf beranek]

Mathematically, by angle and dangle, providing all the right know-how, with minimal rigging anyone can swing a heavy limb to clear an obstacle simply as setting the rig and making the room for it all to swing into the clear, and then lower the works into the drop zone precisely, and all safely. No problem. I've taught many young's how to do it.

Now swinging limbs... simply by cutting and manipulating wood fiber is more an art-form. One gained only from many years of experience working in a region of familiar species.

So, you want to be a tree tramp, heh?

 

[davidwyby]

Making tree or limbs go some other way than gravity wants them to is my favorite thing...I often try to swing things even when they don't need swung just for the knowledge/experience gained.

 

[Bermy]

Swinging smaller limbs without rope was taught in Arb college in the UK. Once you'd gotten across regular cuts they moved on to using them to swing smaller limbs.
It's really cool when it goes as planned.

 

[gf beranek]

Funny, just minutes ago I finished swinging a side-leaner that was favoring the neighbors yard, and their services ta boot.

First I set a line to hold the lean and tensioned it nice and tight. It was a short run. No much stretch.

Second, I set another line to pull the tree to the direction of fall, and tensioned it nice and tight. It was a long run... stretched like a rubber band.

Last, I put in the felling cut, back-cut and set a wedge. And the rubber band effect pulled the tree without even having to beat the wedge.

The angle of the dangle.

Damn, I can still do it!

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I had no doubts

 

[Eric H-L]

So, you want to be a tree tramp, heh?

Appreciate the information on swinging a limb with rigging.
I came to The Treehouse intending to be a recreational climber for life. Now, I admit l I’ve got the bug bad to trim trees. All the rigging and working with gravity is fascinating. I hope I am not mis-quoting Reg…people keep quoting him saying something like: “Some people want to do tree work, others like the idea of tree work.” I might just like the idea—but I probably will never find out because I am not willing to do what( I think ) it would take.
I am 61 years young and my wife and I are set on paying off our house and putting away enough in the next 8-10 years so we can retire in bare bones financial security. As a veteran electrician I probably earn as much as many good climbers and I am not willing to leave my trade and start over. Anyone here near Indianapolis? Need some ground help on Saturdays? I have reached out through the Hoosier Climbers Facebook group looking for Saturday work. Nothing came of that so far. I think I am up against 1) takes (at least ) five times as long to train somebody one day a week and also 2) a lot of tree companies don’t want to work weekends after busting butt all week.

 

[SeanKroll]

Speed lining can induce forces onto to limbs/ holding wood upward, sideways, and theoretically, downward. Harnessing the forces and movements to spin/ 'English' them into/ through tight pockets is more fun than fighting them from straight down rigging. Sometimes, with a mid-tie, this can lift and swing limbs sideways by tensioning the speedline.

Miriam was speedlining redwood limbs over understory growth of firs, cedars, rhododendrons and madrones yesterday and today. Learning.

 

[gf beranek]

Eric H-L , nice post, good to read you.

 

[davidwyby]

Eric, I am in the same boat…wannabe faller, running a machine and welding shop.

 

[stikine]

Appreciate the information on swinging a limb with rigging.
I came to The Treehouse intending to be a recreational climber for life.

Wow, 61 and feeling it... good on you Eric! Best wishes. At 59 pushing 60 I'm not feeling it for a change into serious tree work.