The anatomy of crane picks

WoodCutr

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I plan to have minimal interaction with this thread as I don't do much crane work (<100 hours on the crane)
I figure this to be a good place to discuss crane pick techniques, rigging, cuts, go crazy

a few questions, I usually try to maintain the angle/rotation of my picks as they were on the tree and have no movement, I see a lot of guys that like to "stand" a piece up, I assume they mean to tip tie and walk the piece up with the crane while its cut off?

and also cuts for a straight spar, what say you?
typically I come in right to left about 95% of the way, then almost vertical down on the left side to intersect the first cut, gives me more control I feel, the crane operator that works for us would rather use snap cuts so he can break it with the crane, ive done straight slice cuts, and V cuts, always ends with a stuck saw in my experience...
if you have something to add feel free to comment, if not then just read along, hopefully we all learn something new
im down to set up mock examples with string and sticks as well but may not reply with pictures right away
 
Was looking for a spot for this, I guess here works.

@SeanKroll , I saw on TB you mentioned a 'self equalizing' crane pick technique, just curious about that concept if you'd care to elaborate.
 
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  • #5
finally some replies here!

here has been my favorite crane rigging setup as of yet, where possible I only use one sling, 20ft endless loop with a 3/4" shackle, for spars a snap cut works amazing
View attachment 386943925_6144996312267903_5878787546917384000_n.mp4 1699744817209.png

when im picking long limbs, I typically either do the endless loop and a balancer, one on each end, or loop sling in the middle and a balancer on both ends
for lighter stuff, say 2-300 pounds I usually just slowly hinge it down with a single sling butt tie, my crane operator likes it and it makes things go quick

my balancers are about ~25ft 1/2" stablebraid, 8" eye in one end and a tight eye in the other with a steel biner, half hitch where I want it to take the load and just take the tail and wrap it wherever itll reach to hold the H/H
endless loop is a 6K 20ft roundsling, pretty long rigging and its a pain but its quite often that I need the extra length for sling angles, not uncommon for me to have my slings anchored >35ft apart
 
Sorry for the late reply. @WoodCtr one thing that I see right off the bat from your photos is your mismatch cuts. Stay away from those in crane work! They needlessly shock load the crane. When we wrote the TCIA BMP for Crane Use in Arboriculture manual, we included the mismatch cuts, but in the next revision, they are coming out.

As far as the "Self-Equalizing Crane Sling" goes, that is an invention of my late friend Norm Hall. It's basically a 30' long eye-to-eye 5/8" Amsteel sling with a shackle. The sling is choked around 1 eye, just as in a dead eye sling, then run through the crane hook, with the shackle and eye, terminating 180 degrees from the first choked eye and back on to itself. When the crane tightens up on the sling, the equilibrium point will be found in the pick and the cut can be made. It's very important to cut notches in the side of the pick to hold the sling in place.

I will see if I can upload the pics from Norm that demonstrates all this much better than words can do.

We have so much to be thankful for in the things that Norm Hall taught and gave us in the Arbo industry, such as being the co-inventor of the Port-A-Wrap.
 
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The snap cut doesn't shock load anything the way I do it, the owner of the crane company actually asks us to do it, it would shock load if you just ripped it off, but we cable down and back up and it breaks it nice and clean

I'd be interested to see the equalizing sling, as of late I just do like reon, put the hook over the cg, then walk out and tie the first sling as far out as possible, come back, cable up till it snugs up then pull the second and third slings tight by hand, once all 2 or 3 are snug cable up for pre tension
 
I agree, mismatch cuts on non vertical picks are a key tool in the box, they come off smooth, safe and easy.

Cabling down a bit and then back up can be useful but ime it's not a heavily used.
 
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  • #10
I do shelf cuts typically on limbs, snap cuts work great tho when needed, do the same thing but different

Although no 2 cuts are ever the same, sometimes I just rip cut them, or shelf, snap, hinge around, tip tie and lift, whole bunch of options

Typically use most all of these options in the same tree
 
At the Crane Climber Workshop down in Penn, where I am an instructor, it is taught to never have the crane operator have to break a pick off, no matter if it's a vert or horiz pick. There's is just no reason for it. With snap cuts , you cannot follow your cut through, watching if your kerf opens or closes excessively. Get out of the habit of snap cuts no matter what the crane op says. You're the one up there rigging and cutting it.

Shelf cuts have their place, but too many climbers use them in inappropriate ways.
 
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  • #12
I do snap cuts for a few reasons, mainly the operator likes them, also I can get away from a piece before its comes off, if something were to go wrong it wouldnt matter if it was cut 100% off or a cut that I could break by hand, the crane knows no difference, the LMI reads the same, theres no shock load, and I can be in a safer position

you say there is no reason to do them, but I am failing to see why you wouldnt do them, on really big, 36" and larger stuff I do about a 90% horizontal cut then come down at 60* or so and intersect it at that 10% mark and watch the kerf on the horizontal cut open or close, and judge the tension by that, but you can do that with a snap cut too, just takes more practice to get a snap cut to work

im not new to crane work at all, im not a first timer taking a course on how to do it because im clueless, I am just a dude that has enough experience to know what works for me and my crew
shelf cut works great on horizontal stuff, keeps the butt in place while you move out of the way before its lifted off, same thing a snap cut does, only difference being you dont run the risk of being within arms reach of a multiple thousand pound piece of tree that you hope is balanced right and wont have a wind gust shove it off the shelf into your chest (yeah ive had days that werent supposed to be windy, mid lift get hit with a 15mph gust, part of why I never like cutting pieces free that are close enough to hit me)
 
I've never done a snap cut for crane picking. Most of mind has been with a 22t and a longtime tree crane-operator.

I've always cut straight through.

I'm interested to learn more.
 
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  • #14
I've never done a snap cut for crane picking. Most of mind has been with a 22t and a longtime tree crane-operator.

I've always cut straight through.

I'm interested to learn more.
the video pretty much shows it, put the sling perpendicular to where you are going to cut so as to put the most force into rotating and snapping the cut, do a snap cut, leaving enough wood to hold just the amount the crane is "off by", say it needs 1000 pounds of tension but you guessed 1200, the "snap" wood only has to hold the 200 pound difference and no more
once cut, rappel down or swing away from the cut, then have the operator cable down to close the kerf, then cable back up to break it

just like any snap cut, do the cut however needs to work, main one to watch out for is how far apart the cuts are, too narrow and itll break prematurely, to thick and you risk a shock load or overload

thats all I can think of, I have done straight cuts and V cuts a bit, so far a 95% bar pinch rate, doing the "shelf" cut seems to fix that for me, quite often I will have a bore cut and trigger type thing going on
 
With your massive amount of crane experience, I guess you must have started really early.
Like at age 5.




And you wonder why folks here don't like you.
 
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you must think I wonder why, I don't, you old guys just don't like the new generation doing the same work you do, unlike what you told your kids, its not uphill both ways unlike this argument you are trying to start

as my mom would say: "suck it up buttercup"
 
With your massive amount of crane experience, I guess you must have started really early.
Like at age 5.




And you wonder why folks here don't like you.
Yup, I'm all done with this thread Stig. This "old guy" is not going to get sucked into a debate on what works and what doesn't work in crane work. Let the younger generation learn the hard way.

I'm out.
 
you must think I wonder why, I don't, you old guys just don't like the new generation doing the same work you do, unlike what you told your kids, its not uphill both ways unlike this argument you are trying to start

as my mom would say: "suck it up buttercup"
See you are flat out wrong with that comment. Old guys in the business are old because they listened to the “old guys” before them and learned. Not listening to the old guy will get you squished or somebody else squished. You can think you are cutting edge but you are just tempting fate and fate is just biding it’s time waiting.
A guy can do everything right in this business and still meet their end doing it. It’s best to stack the cards in your favor.
 
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I do not think I'm "cutting edge" or anything

You know how they say pictures are worth a thousand words? Being there in person is worth way more, the book only works for textbook scenarios, anything beyond that and the book will get you killed

I've never been hurt doing stuff my way, but have been hurt when listening to so called "instructors" give advice on something that they aren't there for


Be done with the thread, idgaf, at this point I see you don't want me here, but thinking I'm being a dumbass because I'm not listening to advice which has gotten me hurt before is a little silly

I'm not tempting fate, if I showed everything in great detail you would see how much safety is involved, it's like in TV where the character is flying, they edit out the cables
But if I showed everything each if my posts would have 500 pictures from every angle, and you would still complain about something




You think you are helping, only thing you are helping is your own ego


As for stig, I have nothing to say to you, won't say what I'm doing wrong which I've asked for multiple times, I seriously don't know and it's made my life hell for close to 10 years now, nobody will tell me
For Chris, same thing, you aren't there to see why I did what I did so you just yap from behind a keyboard like a chihuahua

Flushcut, I'm aware how the old guys didn't get killed early on, very much so, but, it's my life not yours, don't see why you care
 
Yup, I'm all done with this thread Stig. This "old guy" is not going to get sucked into a debate on what works and what doesn't work in crane work. Let the younger generation learn the hard way.

I'm out.
You are not talking to "the younger generation" , but to the "barely weaned" generation.
A 16 year old kid, who from day one here came on like he had more experience than the rest of us together.
"I've tried hundreds of rope and friction knot combinations"
I don't think it adds to the quality of the forum to have a lying and bragging child act the seasoned pro and advice others how to do things.
About on par with having Daniel Murphy on board.
I've kept quiet, but he made a comment about a job of mine that pissed me off, so now the gloves are off.
I honestly wish @Carl would off him.
 
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I dont know where you got 16 year old from lol
im not lying about my experience, you got upset with me because I said Europeans do things right? I

you assume im lying, im not, im not saying I have any more experience than anyone, im not bragging, im just trying to share my work and maybe you like it, maybe you don't


if you are going to be a dick about my one comment, then jump into MY thread and derail it, then you lose all my respect, you had a bunch of mine but thats out the door now
 
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im 18, ive been doing this since I was 14, professionally since 16, ive got about 250 hours under the crane, and about 3000 hours in a tree id I had to guess, never had an insurance claim or hospital worthy injury, ive done a couple hundred trees that nobody else had the balls to touch

and yes, ive tried hundreds of hitch combos, dunno what you think isnt believable about that, maybe because you havent so automatically nobody else can?
 
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