Bucking issues

[Treeaddict]

When I took down that cherry with a nearly horizontal top half I experienced something during the bucking process yet encountered. The 395 felt as though it wouldn’t always grab and cut. Like it was floating on top of the kerf. I know the rakers are set well and the chain is sharp. It didn’t pull into the cut as usual. Pulling it back out and pushing it back in helped. When it cut, it cut well. Also seemed like the bar would pinch even when not in compression. Is this due to fiber structure being twisted and under immense stress due to the extreme lean and common in a tree like that?

 

[lxskllr]

How's your bar? Check for rail slop. The teeth can heel over, and not bite. From what I remember though, none of your bars looked too worn. The only other thing I've got is I've noticed cherry is kind of weird when handsawing. The blade doesn't always track true, and if you pause without completing the cut, the blade will pinch, and make it very difficult to complete. No idea what's going on, but it's as if the wood swells and pinches the blade :shrugs:

 

[Treeaddict]

Yeah. Bar and chain all good. Cherry is some hard stuff. It’s just weird that it would stop cutting and pulling it out while running and pushing it back in would start the cutting process again. Maybe the chips weren’t being cleared?

 

[Mellow]

The fibers that were previously under immense tension have now been relieved and they'll compress into the kerf. Pulling out and reinserting the bar recuts those fibers and widens the kerf. Or something like that.

 

[flushcut]

Your 395 is used up send it to me for proper disposal. I’ll even pay shipping. My vote: is bar slop. Does it do this with every tree or just this one?

 

[lxskllr]

That's what I I like about flush. His generosity is unmatched at The House.

 

[Altissimus]

Did you clean out the bar groove ? , I use an old linoleum knife or easily available broken hacksaw blades ... doesn't take much compressed crap in one spot to affect cut. Other possibility is burred (or even worn out) guide rails , will cause same problem.

 

[SeanKroll]

I've run across this.

Put on a new chain and test in the same kerf or near it.

This isolates different potential causes.

Any mushrooming on the bar?

 

[Treeaddict]

Bar groove clean. Bar newish and well maintained and chain is sharp. This is the only tree this has happened with. Usually it cuts like a champ.

Rajan, what’s your address so I can get this poopy saw to you?!🤣🤣

 

[Treeaddict]

I think Mellow is onto something. Bar removal allowed the fibers to enter the kerf and then be cut on the second pass.

 

[SeanKroll]

Full comp, skip, full skip?

Bar nose buried?

 

[Treeaddict]

Full skip. Had approx 12” of bar out the other side.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Grain when compressed and under tension, can bind and tends to "guide" a chain to a certain degree. As do large branch unions. Brett kind of hit it on the head.

 

[SeanKroll]

The lombardi poplar that was ganoderma-infected mush wouldn't let me cut well. A shorter bar did better. Not sure if the chain was wanting to J-cut or not.

How solid was the tree?

Cherry is stringy grinding. The guy I bought my grinder from, who'd been in the biz for a couple decades told me cherry is one of the worst grinding stumps.

Wonder how much factors of species and solidity contribute.

Does a wedge in the kerf help?

 

[Altissimus]

Grain when compressed and under tension, can bind and tends to "guide" a chain to a certain degree. As do large branch unions. Brett kind of hit it on the head.

I have gotten (and expected) that , usually when something is twisted, under tension, and even part broken ... the fibers in the same cut can push the chain opposite ways. A loose chain here will throw , another guess how I learned this lesson.

 

[Treeaddict]

Sean, that cherry was something solid. So dense. 2 people to lift 22”dia x 10”. Once I got 1/3 through I wedged the top of the kerf. Didn’t really do much though. It was just weird to have compression like cuts on a level piece of wood due to the trees growth.

Throwing a chain in that situation would suck more so than most other scenarios

 

[SeanKroll]

Splintered bits are terrible.

 

[gf beranek]

In the spring the bark cambium of the redwood can swell and pinch bar in the curf. The weeping willow can do the same.

Yeah, it feels weird.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

The areas where two or many axis fight together (even if they become somewhat grafted) have a mess of tensions and compressions in play. They can easily squeeze the chain, even if nothing moves apparently. Often starting the cut on either the supposed tension or compression point gives the same result. Bind.
Reaming the cut works well usually to clear the kerf and keep the chain moving.

 

[Treeaddict]

Next heavy leaner with twisted, compressed fibers will have extra time added to it.

 

[gf beranek]

Bucking issues!

There's a million.

And co-dominant trees are one.

I learned early in my career... bucking a co-dominant tree at its crotch union without first relieving binds in the tree beyond the union, is a sure recipe for two things to happen. One: getting the bar stuck in the buck. The other thing, and much worse, is having one of the spars split apart violently and kill you.

Shook trees are another bucking issue. Shook trees are broken trees, but they are still held together by twisted splinters, rails and chunks. Breaks in the tree as such can often be hidden under the bark, out of our sight.

Shook Trees ranked at the top of the list for getting your bar stuck, trying to buck them. Though they are seldom dangerous trees. Just a pain in the arse to buck.

And then there's end bind, top bind, bottom bind, side bind, torque and shear.

Talk about bucking issues.

There's a million.

 

[Treeaddict]

Sure opened my eyes Jerry! Good to know about the codom. Generally I start the dismantling from the crown working down to the trunk. I don’t leave anything behind me that could wallop me if movement takes place as balance shifts. This should help relieve that tension in the crotch, correct?

I don’t know how many ring shook trees are in my area. Isn’t that mostly a large softwood species issue?

 

[SeanKroll]

Since I was just felling poplar stubs, I didn't think too much about it settling down on the bar simply from weight, as it was a thin, thin drum of good wood.

I will try the same chain/ bar in a big log that is not mush.

Strangely, somehow the slot on my bar broke at the end. I don't see how that would affect anything. Never seen or heard of that, and it's not abused. I'm the only one who messes with the 36". I'll get a picture next time I'm in my truck.

So many things.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Gray pines will too. When they are taking up tons of water, they get soft and eats saws and wedges. Garbage tree. But the damn forest needs them.

 

[stig]

In the spring the bark cambium of the redwood can swell and pinch bar in the curf. The weeping willow can do the same.

Yeah, it feels weird.

Back in the days here, loggers who cut poplar for peeling used to file their saws at 45 degrees in order for the chain to cut a wider swath, to avoid binding up by swelling fibers.