bowlin

[sotc]

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=128824&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1&nt=4

so this thread at the buzz strikes me as funny. probably cause i still climb on a bowlin if i dont have a splice. some say it comes untied but when confronted that its the side loading issue like gerry said about the arborplex, ie only had that rope come loose with a bowlin among other knots. thats why it never leaves the shop. any deaths or injuries from sideloading a proper biner?

 

[SkwerI]

I had to quit reading by the time I got to the second page. PLEASE GOD don't ever allow Grover to become a posting member on this forum!
:roll:

 

[MasterBlaster]

Grover just might have us all fooled.

 

[SkwerI]

WTF is that supposed to mean?

Willie, I have no problem using a bowline for life support. It sucks for termination on a carabiner, though.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I forgot... you have teh rage.

 

[lumberjack]

Even if you cross load a biner across the gate in a traditional climbing system, I'd still be looking at a safety factor of 7x my rigged climbing weight.*

That'd be 10x a 200lb climber.

At the weight the biners would fail, you'd be seriously pushing the envelope on the rest of the system, not to mention your body.



*Assuming the TIP is my Rope Guide or otherwise frictionless setup.



I've climbed on it without worry, although I prefer a splice.

 

[sotc]

i kinda thought all the ansi, 5400 pound rule, took all that side loading into consideration. 10x safety factor seems sufficient for the few moments it takes to notice your gear is crossways. seems silly to me

 

[lumberjack]

10x is sufficient for near bouts anything we do. 10x=10%

Aluminum has a higher fatigue life than our climbing line.


Actually, my math is off. You'd (200lbs) have a 10x safety factor if you were SRTing on a single biner, 20x in a traditional.

Regular loaded biners "only" have a 44x safety factor for my hypothetical 285lb gear laden self in a traditional getup.

 

[Frans]

LJ=Aluminum has a higher fatigue life than our climbing line.

I listened to two experts in metal tell me the same thing. Denny Morehouse who owns ISC, and Rock Thompson who owns Rock Exotica.

Alum. can even distend warp what have you and still re-tain it's strength.

Once while at a climbing skills workshop, I pulled my climb line out but forgot to untie the steel locking snap. It came winging out of the tree and smacked the blacktop parking lot.

The twit came running over demanding I 'retire' the snap. I still use it to this day, 15-20 years later.

 

[lumberjack]

...The twit came running over demanding I 'retire' the snap...

Fairly certain I've met him too. :roll:

 

[rbtree]

That grover is quite the character, eh?! 4 pages of twittering on and on over there.....

While I'm far from a stickler for treating ANSI as the "bible", I did switch to a scaffold knot for lifeline termination years ago....usually a triple for added safety. Far prefer it to a bowline, and not just for safety.

And, I use an anchor bend for terminating a biner for rigging light to medium loads.....even on arborplex, if dressed well, it seldom comes loose..and never had one come undone. I feel the two wraps on the biner makes the ratio of knot strength to rope strength higher than the buntline or scaffold.

OK, next ANSI related discussions: spin lock biners and one-handed saw use...

 

[rbtree]

Fairly certain I've met him too. :roll:

who dat?.....



....TD....?

 

[Stumper]

Bite your tongue Rog-TD is well informed regarding the toughness of 'biners and the fallacious nature of the "dropped gear" scare.-In fact he has posted links to a study from Black Diamond that failed to EVER find a dropped 'biner testing less than rated.

 

[Blinky]

I like scaffold. Nothing against bowlines as a tie-in but you can't use'em in comps.

 

[sotc]

ill have to try that scaffold

 

[rbtree]

Bite your tongue Rog-TD is well informed regarding the toughness of 'biners and the fallacious nature of the "dropped gear" scare.-In fact he has posted links to a study from Black Diamond that failed to EVER find a dropped 'biner testing less than rated.

sure, stumper.....I have nothing against TD, just recall reading a bit of negative from a couple folks here....

 

[SkwerI]

Somebody on this forum speaking badly of TD? Surely you jest!

 

[treesandsurf]

The reason that thread was started was because of an upcoming climbing skills workshop here on Oahu. For insurance purposes, everything needs to be ANSI compliant and I wasn't sure if the bowline was or not...

jp