BMS Belay Spool

Read some of the thread over there......Im not sold.

How do you adjust the amount of friction for varying loads. Sometimes 1 wrap and sometimes 2 is needed. A porty on the ground can be adjusted for each cut. With that thing you cannot adjust on the fly without going up to the rigging point. The argument about a porty being to complex for some people? Really? Who the hell cant run a porty with 2 or 3 minutes of instruction? What I found funniest though, like every other "great" idea or tool Tom has he offered up, his famous "it's in my storage unit, so I cant show you a picture" If this tool is so valuable why is it sitting in a cardboard box in a storage unit?
He mentions that using this device saves the equivalent of a half or whole person on the crew. Freeing the ground crew up to work the ground, because the climber is managing the load line. Yeah as if the climber doesnt already have the hardest job on the crew, lets make it easier for the guys on the ground by doing their job from the tree, because they are to thick in the head to grasp using a ground anchored lowering device, or taking wraps around a tree.
I really dont see it "speeding up efficiency" at all. I think it could be useful in some limited applications, but not nearly as much as Tom has hyped it up.
 
Is this the famous Tom Dunlap? I've seen him climb, he is anything but 'efficient' in a tree. Slowest damn climber I've ever seen, even slower than John Paul Sanborn. The last thing he needs is more stuff to do in the tree.
 
If a guy isn't smart enough to use a porta wrap, with some basic instruction, he probably should not be on the job.
 
JPS, slow? Ha thats great. I cant stand that guy... biggest douche in the WAA. He wont even pay full dues for the conferences. He has claimed for years that he is a student...... lame!
 
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  • #11
I agree that is someone isn't able to use a POW they shouldn't be the one performing the POW'ing task.



A scenario that I run across a lot when rigging down long limbs with one groundie is that it is way easier for the groundie to land them in a tight spot while not also trying to run the lowering rope, and not get the rope tangled in the brush at the same time. Then, they have to tie/ de-girth hitch the knotless sling, get the rope clear and restacked, and send the end up to me. The whole while, I sit there waiting. You can only pre-sling so many branches, then run out of things to do while the groundwork is being done.

When natural crotching or running through a pulley without a lowering device. I often will leave stubs near me for friction wraps so that I can cut while Ben catches the piece with the rope. I take control of the rope, and he lands the piece (we work around a lot of fragile landscaping).

As much as possible, I will both cut and catch the piece, leaving Ben free to land the piece and get the groundwork done.

This necessitates having stubs to later clean off, and having a suitable stub for a friction wrap, and only using a rope that handles abrasion well.

The difficulty comes most of all when we are lowering something heavy and using a POW. I can't hold the weight of the cut piece while getting friction wraps on a stub. Having an overhead lowering device seems like a great option. Bearing in mind that there is less rope in the system to absorb energy, and the inability to heavily pre tension the line might make this a good LD to couple with Polydyne rigging rope.


Two days ago, we were doing canopies raises on 2 doug-firs over a couple of sheds and a fence, with a narrow landing zone.

I shot an SRT line and ropewalked up to hang a pulley (conversely I could have used a Belay Spool, as well as shot another line to pull up a floating anchor for either pulley or BSpool). I worked off of both sides of the rope, one side using the spliced eye for a knotless system, and the other side an alpine butterfly midline (working midline line this has a built-in tagline for the groundie, which can be nice). While I cut rigged branches and lowered off stubs, Ben landed and disconnected, while I was getting set on the other side of the rope with the next branch. By the time he was clear of the DZ, I was ready to cut and lower the next.

I think that for this type of situation, the belay spool would be idea.

If you need more friction for some situations than other, one solution is to use an appropriately strong natural crotched floating anchor for the BSpool, lowering it down to the climber to be reset, then re hoisted and secured. If it is a thick barked tree or a removal, then adding a bit of trunk wrap friction can adjust for the additional load (using an appropriate rope). If there are a few bigger pieces to rig off, and the rest smaller, then a second friction device can be added at the base for those few heavier loads.

Perhaps this is a species specific type of situation.


I'll let you know what I come up with after I buy one. They are about $110 (apologies if I'm repeating myself).
 
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  • #13
Why not use one of the mini portawraps up top? Cheaper, by far.

Can work off both sides of the rope.

The BSpool is reputed to have a slip/ grab characteristic. When there is no load, it is super easy to move the rope with minimal friction when resetting the rope, whereas the POW's round shape has more grab when you don't want it.


I'm still wondering about the rope turning a 90 degree corner quickly. Seems like it would be harder on the rope.

Part of the system is also that the rope changing orientation from bent to straight to bent to straight, as it moves around the device while loaded, is supposed to take up some energy. From my armchair, it would seems sorta negligible dissipation of energy.
 
That would be a favorable characteristic, working either end of the rope...as would easy movement when unloaded.

I fear I paid little attention to the details of TD's postings on it...for good or ill, imo he does tend to make much ado about something that never needed to be explored.
 
I can see maybe on some specific job, this tool might come in handy, but doubt it would ever lead to the kind of gains in efficiency Tom D. suggests for my jobs. I try to rig as big pieces as possible these days, thus try to double crotch whenever possible. Often I pre-set a double crotched line from the ground and just start rigging pieces on my way up. I think picking a good overhead anchor point that has as big a LZ for the ground crew is the way to go. That and some near balance point rigging to keep the loads pretty balanced helps the ground crew, more than freeign up a pair of hands on the ground would. I aslo like to work with a lot of manpower on the ground so they don't hold the climber up. So it is rare that they would need that kind of help.
 
What I dont quite get about this is that everybody was whining about the "bend radius" of the rope on the old Wraptor design being too tight when it was just supporting your body weight and this here device incorperates 4 tight bends (corners) which they claim absorbs energy from rope and is designed to lower huge pieces:/: Strange that on neither forum has anybody even mentioned bend radius.....
 
The only idiot I ever heard whining about bend radius in reference to the Wraptor was FOS and was against the entire concept of the Wraptor before ever laying eyes on it. That was the best excuse he could come up with to complain about.
 
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  • #18
What I dont quite get about this is that everybody was whining about the "bend radius" of the rope on the old Wraptor design being too tight when it was just supporting your body weight and this here device incorperates 4 tight bends (corners) which they claim absorbs energy from rope and is designed to lower huge pieces:/: Strange that on neither forum has anybody even mentioned bend radius.....

Paul, I mentioned/ asked about the bend radius. Seems the overall size is similar to a POW, but the bends are small. I didn't take the time to work out math/ physics of the thing. I thought it was strange that nobody else thought the bends were tight. Maybe we are on to something. I think that it is more of a device for many small loads than fewer large loads.

I don't think that it is meant to lower huge pieces in tree work. From what I've heard about rescue, they replace all ropes after each rescue.


Daniel, I agree that it appears not as useful for hardwoods, which you seem to deal with largely, as for rigging out conifers. Its a niche piece of gear.



If I can pay $110 once to avoid having to have a 1 groundie at one all day conifer job, its paid for more than once. Before the second job, its paying for itself. If I'm only rigging ~50-70 pound limbs, but dozens of them, over landscaping, I think that is the niche.

I might consider having a dedicated rope for using with the Belay Spool for low working loads, so that I don't have to concern myself when rigging bigger pieces on a rope that has been subjected to a lot of tight bending with a little bit of shockloading (hard to pretension, so a little is unavoidable) softened by letting it run.

So many of my jobs are tight access over landscaping that this LD might help. I'll let you all know what I come up with.
 
Agreed,
Working a 2 or even three man crew on big conifers in tight areas would definitely be advantagesous to have this little ditty.. You could even work with a short line, less then twice the height of the lowering point, and switch sides with every run, allowing the climber to set the rigging without waiting for the groundies to untie.. So for the right business, this thing could be a real work horse.

There is a lot of equipment that gets used everyday, that pays for itself over and over again, saws, chipper, trucks, loaders etc.. we all think of that as money well spent. then there are the small items that can pay for themselves with the first day, like the big shot. We all really think that is a good investment.. then there are the smaller specialty items that we only use on very few special jobs/applications that many tend to think are a waste of money, becasue they will see such little action relative to the everyday workhorses.. BAD THINKING though, becasue if they can pay for themselves in a day or two of use, then they are worth having in the kit, even if they only get used every once in a long while.

I AM sure you could rig a few hundred pounds off that thing without bend ratios coming into consideration.
 
Great tool, and idea. I can't see how you wouldn't be sold on this tool. It's only 110$ and I know Of no other device besides that ox block that does what it does. The ox block seems bound to hockle the hell out of your ropes.
 
I had Tom D come out and work with me for a day, I hope I am climbing like he does when I'm 60, that's all I can say. I hope i am climbing period.
 
Interesting stuff, I'm gonna do some more diggin'..... ;)

BMS Belay Spool

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It has its uses, though I don't use it often. I like it for reducing dynamic forces on suspect limbs.
 
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