What harness to get??


Jun 25, 2007
Melbourne, Australia
i am in need of a new harness and am not sure whether to go with the TM or TF what do people think of the motion and flex, sorry im not sure if there is already a thread for this.
Depends on what style of climbing you do and what type(s) of saddles you are have been using.
I can't recommend the sequoia enough!

This is my first leg loop style saddle and I'm loving it. Thought it wouldn't be too great for removals considering the thin back pad, but I didn't think about the saddle once during the whole removal, which says a lot!

The Master, b'fly, TreeAustria all are durable saddles. The TF,TM, Sequoia, are not.
How can you say that the Sequoia isn't durable? It only hit the market a short time ago, surely you haven't worn one out already.
I like the sequoia so far......I bet I get at least 3-4 years out of it.
How can you say that the Sequoia isn't durable? It only hit the market a short time ago, surely you haven't worn one out already.

I have had one since before it was released to the public. And yes, it shows ALOT of wear. Not worn out, but getting there.

You should know also that the standard of durability I use is one where I compare a saddle's durability to say, an old school Weaver saddle. You know, the ones with a leather back. The 200 dollar model sold everywhere. Not uncommon to see one of those which is over 15 years old, and still as safe to use as the day it was bought.

These saddles are used by working climbers throughout our entire industry. They are affordable to the wage earner. Your average guy working for a tree company gets between 100-200 dollars a day. After taxes and such, a weeks take home pay equals roughly 450-900 dollars. A 500 dollar saddle is alot of money for them.

High performance saddles, such as the TreeFlex or the TreeMotion are out of reach for your average climber. Or, if they do buy one, it is a serious investment.
I have a hard time recommending a saddle to this market unless I know they are going to get an real good return on their investment.

Personally, I like to buy and use these latest saddles and gear. But I am an exception to the rule. For me it is not a big deal to plop down the money. Not bragging, it is just that I can budget that money as a business owner. Far better for me to do it, and write up my thoughts on it, then to have a wage earner buy one and be disappointed in the purchase.
I get your point. I know the weaversaddle real well, since their floating Dee wide back has been my daily saddle for the last few years.
Before that, and sometimes still I used a Petzl navajo miniboss, which has held up to a lot of abuse. It is a sad thing if the quality of Petzl saddles have fallen so low as what you say.
However I'm getting a palletfull of stuff from Bailey's on the next boat and one of the things on that pallet is a Sequoia. With the dollar to danish kroner exchange rate being the lowest I can remember, getting a Sequoia from the US is no hardship at all.
I'm still lovin' my BFII.

Nick - great review of the TF - will the harness be with you in ATL?

you are right that the tf sits on the hips, where the bfll does set on the waist and with me it ride up.

blinky - it does look good on you . . . :D

and I also like my butterfly ll - it also is a light weight harness, the back pad is large, on a hot day though it does get soaked. one TINY issue i have is that my camelback is long and sometimes slips between the harness back pad and my back so i have to readjust it.

I agree with Nick about the buckles on the bfll -they are nice and easy to open and square not pointed. the treemotion has pointed ones that i found hard to open.

the bfll d's are set at a distance that you can clip into with your flipline, i have to move a body part to see them thou but you do not have to worry about them folding back.

the bfll has enough gear loops - three in the back and one on each side that is smaller - i use those for the small throwline mug or my camera case. i have added a gator biner, just behind the side d to add a loop, but do be warned that could be mistaken for your side d if you are not careful.

the bridge can be replaced, on mine the outter webbing has a sting pulled.

For me the TF had more side movement once i was on rope and i was able to turn my entire body at the hips a good 180 with out the ring on the bridge binding. I have a shorter bridge on my bfll and that limits my motion a little.


disclaimer - i am not a production climber
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It is a sad thing if the quality of Petzl saddles have fallen so low as what you say.

I did NOT say the quality of Petzl products has fallen. Nor did I say the sequoia was not made well.

What I DID say, was the sequoia is not as durable as I would like. Nor is it as durable as other saddles on the market.
In your opinion, what saddle is the most cost efficient? And then on the other side of the coin... what saddle would you/do you own if money is no option?
TM is unparalled for mobility/comfort in my book - durability is questionable.

A good day for most 3 man crews around here would supply them all with the saddle of their choice - whether the boss wants to do that is another question. Good thing I'm the boss and a good day for me buys any saddle - a small investment in my books if you're climbing the other 300 some odd days of the year. Save money on fast food or something else!
FJR, in my limited experience it seems that saddle life is inversely porportional to the cost. My first two saddles were $75 Carl Cummerling butt strap saddles (similar to the cheapest basic Weaver) and they wore like iron, lasting about 5-7 years each. I finally moved up to a Buckingham from Sherrill for about $200 and it only lasted 2.5 years. Then I bought a Tree Austria for over $300 (with auxiliary bosun seat) and it only lasted 1.5 years. But my last saddle purchase was another Tree Austria because it is by far the best saddle I've owned. Thankfully I'm no longer climbing regularly so this one should last me for several years of limited use.
Thanks for the good info Skwerl. The reason I was asking is because it is about that time for a new saddle. I have been riding a Buckingham Versatile for the last 5 years and if I upgrade I can pass this saddle on to an employee who has just started climbing. I am going to look into the Tree Austria a little bit more. I don't know much about the saddle but I have heard a lot of great reviews including yours. Thanks for the help!
FJR, I agree wholeheartedly with Skwerl's post.

Seems like the more you spend on a saddle, the less durability you get.

BUT, the old style Weaver (one of the most durable) is also one of the most uncomfortable.

Very hard to recommend a saddle as each of us climbs differently.

Check out the B'fly2, and the TreeAustria as being two saddles which incorporate advanced designs but are also fairly durable.
Each one of those saddles are very different in design features.
My Tree Austria 1, I had for around four years, it lasted well and is still perfectly safe to use despite the wear to the bridge.

I tried the Treeflex for a long period and I liked it until I tried the Treemotion which I now own and find very comfortable.
anyone use the suspenders for the sequoia yet? with the croll? worth the money? does it hook and unhook easy?
I wanna know if you can put the fall arrest suspenders on the sequoia! They seem to be the same design as the croll suspenders, but with a D in the back. Petzl's new V-BOD or whatever has the new style suspenders with the fall protection attachment.