To pay, or not to pay

[Levi]

No pay, what an asshat for asking after agreeing to the terms clearly laid out beforehand.

agreed

 

[sawinredneck]

I agree with Justin, it was stated he'd pay for the class, IF they WANTED to attend it. Now every time I've been sent for training, it was paid for and I was paid for my time, but that was set in advance. "Hey Andy, wanna go learn about Sulair air compressors?" Sure, "OK, we'll set it up and you can go in on your day off and I'll pay double time for the time you are there plus mileage." OK! Linkbelt came to Whitestar and trained us in the break room, on company time. I did watch all the Bobcat videos at home, on my own time, just to know them. So I can see both sides.
I can't count the number of times I've had to sit through forklift training, I think I could teach the classes now, without a book in front of me!l Or fire safety training, nothing like wasting half a day doing that, then going back and having to work through the evening to get the parts I was supposed to get done that day, done! Nothing like good old over time! That never made sense to me.

 

[sotc]

This is as much about the future as this particular episode. I've sent a dozen employees to this training over the years and noon that went ever had an issue

 

[ruel]

My very self interested answer as an employee is PAY! You are asking your employees to spend their time in a way that benefits your company and they should be compensated for that time.

 

[treebilly]

I believe you proved you're investment by offering to pay for it. The employee sounds like he doesn't want to invest back. My time, like most of us, is valuable. I choose to spend quite a lot of it gaining more knowledge for the career I chose. I work with one other guy that does the same. As we are also the highest paid, our " investment" has been paid for. If I had asked to be paid for the countless hours I've spent educating myself, I probably would be paid a lot less per hour.

 

[treebilly]

My very self interested answer as an employee is PAY! You are asking your employees to spend their time in a way that benefits your company and they should be compensated for that time.

This is true, but the certs belong to the employee and they can be carried to other companies. Should he also pay them for their time at the BMV because they have a cdl that benefits his company also?

 

[CurSedVoyce]

The terms were laid down prior to the class. An agreement is an agreement. Employee stirring shat up my read on it..

 

[Burnham]

Agreed.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

No deal.

What was so important in the class ( that want legally required) that he had to hear it from them, not you, as part of OJT.

What in his work tasks obligates this knowledge?

What is your read on the guy, in general? Is he a bad ass, seasoned veteran tree man of some sort? Is he expected to become a much better tree man working with your crew?

Negotiate in advance, no obligations, no hard feelings any way it works out, sure. After the fact, no deal.

 

[sotc]

Have you ever been through EHAP? Very important information, far more in depth than most employers can convey.
Nothing "obligates" it. We all work around power lines to some extent or another.
My read is a newer guy with solid chainsaw skills, learning to climb and rig pretty quickly. Could become a solid hand.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

Sorry, I skimmed over EHAP in the original post. Tired tonight.

Thankfully, I don't have to deal with lines much. Occasional power line drops.

I should take an EHAP class... Another thing for the "should do" list.

 

[Merle Nelson]

I should too. Will someone pay me to do it? Squish?

 

[sotc]

Like

 

[BIGTWIG]

EHAP was a really good class. I took a lot from it. In my opinion, if an employer is to have a mandatory training during normal work week (Monday to Friday) then paying employees time would be smart. They are there for a full weeks pay check. After guys get 40+ hours, On a Saturday, with an expensive class for a whole crew... I think paying for the class is fair. It shows your guys want to be tree workers and better their careers.

Good discussion.

 

[BIGTWIG]

Also, it may be a good discussion with your employee how agreements and contracts work in our world. We don't just get to charge the customer more because we feel like it AFTER we made an agreement/contract/handshake.

 

[NickfromWI]

To me the issue isn't just I'm a cheap ass and don't want to pay, the issue is an accord was struck between Willie and the employees ...

For me that's the end of the discussion. Don't pay him, as agreed prior to the class.


love
nick

 

[woodworkingboy]

I don't think that Willie said that his employees was demanding in an unpleasant way. A deal is a deal, but i don't see much fault in running by the boss the possibility of getting paid for the time, if after taking the class he thought pay was merited. If Willie said no, and he became argumentative or continued to whine about it, that's something else. If he said ok and let it go, maybe kudos to him for looking for the possibility to help himself with some extra deserved wages. The fact that Willie at least thought the guy's view merited thinking about it, seems to show it wasn't such a grievous position.

 

[pigwot]

What is important is he went to EHAP. Whether you pay him or not he'll be a safer climber/worker and that is the key benefit. The 'pay or not' might well be forgotten down the road, but the enhanced safety to himself and the crew is worth the investment of time.

My last EHAP brush-up class two years ago: John Ball started the class by asking who in the room was over fifty. Five of us raised arms (he points out the greatly increased likelihood of accident and death in young, inexperienced and old, feeble climbers. Okay, he didn't actually say 'feeble'). I had a young fellow sitting next to me who knew I'd been climbing for 28 years ask why I was taking EHAP again at my age. I answered, "I'm trying to beat the odds".

 

[vharrison]

We pay for our men to take the class and the time involved. That said, our classes are during the week, so no overtime. Ah, nobody mentioned that! Overtime. Saturday classes would mean overtime for me.

 

[sotc]

No doubt Gigi, if I were to start paying these optional classes on a Saturday the guys would have a day off during the week. Then say a guy or 2 doesn't want to go then we're scheduling short days for them. Certainly food for thought

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Yup... There are ripples of effect with every decision

 

[stig]

Can I change my vote?
I didn't really catch the part about a foregone deal.
That being the case, I'm with Justin. A deal is a deal is a deal.

But in my company I would just have told them from the beginning that I'd pay for the course and their time.
That is how it is done here.

 

[Dave Shepard]

A deal is a deal. When I took workshops I had to take a week off and pay the workshop. That was over $1,500 out of pocket, each, times five workshops during my employment there. I have taken that knowledge with me, but my former boss got the use of it while I was there for free.

 

[Pelorus]

Deal is a deal.
Employee that wants to be compensated after the fact, no doubt talked to others at the course who were being paid to learn. ("how come they get paid and I don't? Willie sure is a cheap S.OB.").

 

[sotc]

Haha, pretty sure there wasn't a paid employee there. Very few employees I think