Tap and die thread

cory

cory

Tree House enthusiast
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Let's have a lil info exchange on a topic that helped build civilization in a big way, afaik.

Specific issue is I have the occasional bolt for vermeer stump teeth that has some beat up threads. despite being new, so I figured I'd get a T and D to clean up the threads a bit rather than forcing the bolt into the hole and hoping for the best. The bolt is a " 1/2" " allen head. I don't have a T and D set so I bought a single size on amazon, it is a 1/2 28. Well the die doesn't fit the bolt ( a bit too small) and btw, the tap is too small for the hole in the stump pocket, which I guess figures. Can thouest shine any light on this question?

Btw, I have another tooth pocket where the bolt broke off flush on one side of it, the other side the tip of the bolt is flush with the face of the pocket. I'm guessing I need an Easy Out but I'm wondering how hard they are to use, I don't have a drill press.
 
When changing pockets I'll add some neversieze to the threads.
Drilling out the bolt and using an easy out as you describe will work as long as the threads aren't rusted together. But after a while I just replace with new instead of messing with drilling. Spending half an hour to an hour on a single pocket ends up costing money after a while. My thinking is that if the pocket hit something hard enough to break the bolt/bolts the pocket itself may be cracked. And I have had a few pockets fly apart. Plus I wouldn't even attempt it without a drill press and a quality drill bit, I like Norseman bits.
 
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  • #4
Flush, totally agree re discard the pocket, I can be very penny wise/pound foolish. I guess I was more curious about the Easy Out process.

Re neverseize, I have the opposite problem, frequently I get loose bolts depspite strong torquing, yes no torque wrench :/:
 
Easy outs are pretty straight forward. Drill a hole, insert easy out, and tap and turn. Use the biggest easy out that the bolt will allow. Hand drilling thru the bolts is going to be a pain in the ass and expensive with burned drill bits. It will be very difficult to get enough feed pressure and the right RPM with a hand drill. If you have to go that route start with a smaller drill bit and work your way to a larger bit of the final hole size. And you might get lucky and the bolt will back out while drilling. It will with neversieze tho.
Use a torque wrench. 210 ft/lbs with a lubed bolt is something like 300+ ft/lbs dry, but don't quote me on that.
 
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  • #6
Yeah sounds like I will remain a easyout noob for yet another while.

But you raise another good point I've been wondering about- generally I'm a big fan of lubricants :/: :/: , so I tend to put a bit of bar oil on the threads and under the bolt head, figuring that will heavily reduce wear and tear on threads and make a strong torque easier, and make undoing the bolt later easier. Been doing that a long time without apparent issue but the past year or so, the stumper bolts get loose during use and gotta be retightened.

Seeing as threads are an inclined plane, makes sense that lube on the plane will make things slide down hill easier. But not sure why it didn't used to happen to these bolts.
 
With an allen bolt you're talking grade 8 which is harder than hammered hell . You'd about need a carbide drill to even touch it .An old trick is to use a prick punch or an old drill bit sharped about like an awl to tap it loose..However if it's jambed tight from bottoming out it about has to be completely drilled out .
 
I've drilled out the 3/4" bolts twice on my buds old Lindag chuck and duck chipper .The last time I gave him a can of Never -Seeze and told him that was my last time ever for me .It's on him now .Being a nice guy I gave him some carbide drill bits too
 
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  • #11
Ok I'll torque wrench it. But I think they are already pretty tight, I turn em till they won't turn no more

Jim, it takes a half inch allen head so I was thinking non metric
 
Alrighty, this is why you guys keep me around lol. We tell apprentices that their entire pension is invested in never sieze, use it accordingly. It does two things: it lubricates the threads ensuring consistent friction for torquing purposes, and it prevents galling, which causes the threads to stick together. Torque settings are designed for threads with never sieze, so without it, you will actually be under torqued. You can have bolts that are in service for decades, rusted, and will back out once you trim them flush with the nut.

There's a reason why there's a torque setting on stump teeth, because it can come loose and damage/ injure/ kill people. You need a torque wrench. The torque setting is actually designed to plasticly deform the bolt slightly, stretching it. This provides a hard clamping force that will not come loose. For critical applications, bolts and nuts are discarded every time because of this stretching. Sometimes they require preload washers, that are compressed and supply this bending force. For severe vibration, sometimes a thread locking compound is spec'd, and will possibly require heat to remove.

If you still have an actual hardware left around you, you can take the bolt there for sizing. You can try different nuts, etc, or they can measure it. Lacking that look for a fastenal, grainger, or other similar industrial bolt store. While chasing threads is a good idea, when i hear quickly rotating heavy parts being held on by bolts and torque settings, I'm going to the stretching bolts and would be changing them out every so often, along with the nut part.
 
And I was waiting for your input, Kyle....thanks. I did not know that about the torque settings being based upon lubed threads. (is never seize considered "lube" or will oil substitute for never seize?)

The only thread dressing I have used is copper anti-seize...I assume that is your "never seize".
 
I thought this was a martial arts thread.
I've been training my whole life, hoping to get to the point where I could just tap someone on the shoulder and they would die.

Got a way to go yet.
 
If you cannot measure an existing bolt to determine the exact thread size, you may be able to get that information from the dealer parts list.
 
Never sieze is incredible stuff, has many many uses. Keeps gaskets from sticking, works about as well as pipe dope on threads, seals pipe unions, keeps weld berries from sticking to threads.
 
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  • #22
stig said:
I thought this was a martial arts thread.
I've been training my whole life, hoping to get to the point where I could just tap someone on the shoulder and they would die.

Got a way to go yet.
Click to expand...
The Death Touch. Dim Mak.

FireFighterZero said:
Might should investigate a bit more.
Click to expand...

Yeah I was just at Depot buying bolts to fix my pitchfork heads, saw the bolt/thread measuring gauge there, doh!!! :|:
 
I used a very old gauge on the wall at the hardware store. Thousands of uses left it a little sloppy.
 
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  • #24
According to Gary's link, oils lubing threads are ok as long as temps are not high, yeah? Does the oil 'evaporate' after awhile even with no heat?

These posts indicate lube is important for proper torquing, so I wonder why Brush Bandits advocates no lube on threads when changing chipper knives ( and btw they say replace bolts after 5 changes due to the stretching/plasticity.)
 
Because it has far worse consequences if they come loose. Their engineers chose that for the design. The torquing action is what generates the heat. Basically the only thing you ever use oil on the threads is on hydraulic fittings, and you simply use hydraulic oil. The long story short is that bolts are far more complicated than they first appear, engineers will often spec stuff to fit the needs of the application, and both the proper lubricant/ lack thereof and the torque are very important. Cory, just use never sieze, it's like saying engine oil can be replaced by vegetable oil.
 
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