Sizwill? Sizwheel? Whizzy? WTH (What the Heck)

[CurSedVoyce]

Cutting all of anything is no bueno, but leaving all of everything or any one thing is not always a good plan.
There is a balance.
Looking at what goes on in the rainforests in the tropics is an out rage. Looking at logging ops in the Northern hemisphere, much less so.

 

[cory]

You stagger in different generations of trees along with saving old growth...

Totally agree with that entire statement, but is that being practiced anywhere in the US where there is old growth? To take old growth you have to clear cut, no? And taking old growth on steep ground as in that IG post is particularly problematic due to erosion and reforestation difficuly

 

[Gypo]

BLM and Forest Service have 1000's of acres of old growth here that won't ever be cut. I do think some of it should be saved. Most of it is over-ripe, rotten, and falling down or burning up. I wouldn't want to cut it if we could.

On the other hand...

It's a publicly owned resource that has been wasted, in my opinion. Being a conservationist where I grew up meant not wasting resources. Those trees, and the land that they grow on, have been taken out of production forever, or so it appears. This land could have been used to create jobs and tax revenue for the good of the people.

I'm all for saving some big timber, don't get me wrong, but in what quantity? And for what gain? Most of the timber i speak of is in places people will rarely if ever go to see it. They will only be able to get there because a road system was built for logging to get there.

As I understand it, young trees sequester more carbon and use more CO2 than old trees.

Just my .02 take it or leave it.

Merry Christmas.

 

[cory]

Nice to read ya @Gypo, and thanks for your perspective. Send some pics of what your up to in the woods!

As I understand it, young trees sequester more carbon and use more CO2 than old trees.

Regarding that question, goog says old trees store far more carbon than young trees and uptake more of it too compared to young trees. However a given size of young-tree forest will suck up more than the same size old growth forest due to forest density.

Google Search

"I'm all for saving some big timber, don't get me wrong, but in what quantity? And for what gain?"

THAT is the big question!

 

[cory]

And also, imo, taking old growth on steep ground is no bueno

 

[Gypo]

Thanks for the feedback.

Only old growth I've ever cut has been on private ground, or in a burn on government ground widening right of ways for safety. In both cases it has been relatively rare. The 3120 gets run every 2 to 5 years typically.

Again, there are thousands of acres of old growth here on the government, it is not being cut generally.

You state erosion and reforestation issues above as reasons to oppose old growth harvest on steep ground, or this is how I read it at least.

How would this differ from clearcutting second growth?

Thanks for your time.

 

[cory]

Afaik, cutting old growth means clear cutting it. And doing that on steep ground with big trees is more destructive to the ground due to the size and weight of the logs. I'm not a fan of any steep ground logging bc afaik it is too destructive, with the possible exception of helo logging. But responsible logging of second growth I'd say is less destructive than logging old growth.

I'll attach a pic of typical ground we logged in late 70's based outside of Springfield OR.

Hiking up those steep sandy hillsides was 2 steps up, one back.

 

[cory]

 

[cory]

Fuzzy old pic but yeah, high leading big trees on steep ground. I never revisited these sites but I wonder if they were replantable

 

[Gypo]

Of course they were. Trees grew there once, they will again. You know planting is required? Some folks around here don't like clearcuts. They're ugly they say. They're so ignorant they don't realize the patch of reprod next to the clearcut used to be a clearcut.

It's farming, we're farming trees. How long could a farmer maintain his livelihood if he couldn't cut his corn, or he could only cut part of it? What would the shorter supply do to the cost of corn, fuel, etc? Is bare dirt in a plowed field ugly?

I live 20 min from Springfield.

Since the bunchers have come along, and especially since tethering has become a thing, about all we cut is ground that looks just like that, or worse.

High lead logging has mostly gone by the wayside. It's all skylines and motorized carriages now. A large portion of it is full suspension, as in the turns mostly never touch the ground.

One could argue that mechanized sides and ground based logging have a bigger impact on the ground than the yarder sides.

Hope this doesn't sound like a rant. I was born and raised here, by loggers.

 

[Gypo]

I'm probably cutting where you logged!!!

Cheers.

 

[cory]

We did use skyline carriages too. Lordy the air turned blue when the tail hold would come loose on occasion!

I appreciate the info and your perspective.

How big are the bigguns you cut?