Maasdam rigging on the tree end

[ToddE]

Hi Y'all, first post here. I'm a DIY homeowner. Built my own house, maintain my own property etc... I have some oak trees up behind my house that I should have removed before building the house. I will be taking them down this Fall. Maasdam rope puller and 150 feet of 1/2" 3 strand arborist rope from Right Rope is on its way to me, and will be used to guide the trees away from the house. I am pretty solid on how to rig the ground end of things, but I am looking for knowledge on best method for the rope end up in the tree. Nothing fancy, I just don't want to decrease the strength of the rope with knots. Is it as simple as using a spliced loop and running the entire rope back through the hole? Or should I put a steel ring in the splice and run the rope through the steel ring? Or, for convenience, a strong carabiner clipped on to the spliced loop, and then around the rope, then up the tree it goes? I can use a throw a line to get the rope set, but I don't want to climb up to put a sling. I want to make sure whatever I do will be ok with the amount of pressure that rope puller can put on it. Thanks in advance.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

You use a throw line with a weight to then pull your line up. If you have enough rope, you can pull it through the canopy of the tree and than tie it well above your cuts with a running bow line.
If you can isolate a large enough limb near the trunk of the tree, run the running bowline up to the limb..

 

[ToddE]

I understand the throw line part, and getting the rope up in the tree, however I am wanting to avoid any knots in the pull rope. The rope supplier told me it will weaken the rope significantly (up to 50%), and the rope only has a working load rating of 1100 lbs, and the rope puller can already apply like 1500 lbs if I recall.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

The running bowline will not cause enough significant weaking in the three strand at a 1500 pound pull. If the rope runs through the crown and is tied to the trunk, the friction above will lessen the tightening of the bowline even more.
You can tie a carabiner on the end of the rope, and use it to cinch the line. Still, there will be tension on the heel of the carabiner. Even on a splice. So really, not worrisome.

 

[lxskllr]

Welcome to The House!

What's your experience level doing this stuff? I ask, cause things can go really wrong if not done right. Knots won't weaken a decent rope below the limit of what the maasdam can pull, even with mechanical advantage added as long as you don't get too crazy. Of course, it all depends on the consequences of failure.

Anyway, don't be afraid to ask questions and provide pics for a sanity check. Better to get confirmation before the process starts, cause once it's in motion, it's hard to stop.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Todd. One would worry more about a knot midline.

 

[ToddE]

The running bowline will not cause enough significant weaking in the three strand at a 1500 pound pull. If the rope runs through the crown and is tied to the trunk, the friction above will lessen the tightening of the bowline even more.
You can tie a carabiner on the end of the rope, and use it to cinch the line. Still, there will be tension on the heel of the carabiner. Even on a splice. So really, not worrisome.

Thanks! I just want to make sure I am not making any easily avoidable errors.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Hoping you've practiced your felling cuts. Hoping not watching Bob Villa or Daniel Murphy vids. Or early Wrangler Star

 

[ToddE]

Welcome to The House!

What's your experience level doing this stuff? I ask, cause things can go really wrong if not done right. Knots won't weaken a decent rope below the limit of what the maasdam can pull, even with mechanical advantage added as long as you don't get too crazy. Of course, it all depends on the consequences of failure.

Anyway, don't be afraid to ask questions and provide pics for a sanity check. Better to get confirmation before the process starts, cause once it's in motion, it's hard to stop.

Thanks for the reply. I have lived on my land since 2008 and have used my small Stihl quite a bit for general clearing, maintenance, firewood etc. I've dropped a good number of trees, cleaned up more from deadfall and snow breakage, but never anything leaning towards my house. I live on a south facing mountain side, and the trees I need to take out are above / behind. I had my neighbor who is a lifetime professional logger come over to eyeball everything and there was only one tree he thought was beyond DIY (and I agree, it will be hired out), but the rest are fairly small and stand straight enough that I can confidently pull them backwards and drop them myself. Any of the the large 100+ foot tall Ponderosa's I've had to remove from beetle kill I have had him do, just too scary for me. I'm good with small stuff, and the black oaks, and cleaning up the live oaks that fall.

 

[ToddE]

Hoping you've practiced your felling cuts. Hoping not watching Bob Villa or Daniel Murphy vids. Or early Wrangler Star

I have. And, they are small-ish trees.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Oops

 

[Altissimus]

Easy rigging , anchor hitch a shackle to the line end

 

[ToddE]

Easy rigging , anchor hitch a shackle to the line end

I don’t know what that means. Do you have a picture by chance?

 

[ToddE]

Here’s a pic of the area I’m cleaning out. Taking down trees by the edge, and some limbs on the ones further to the left.

 

[lxskllr]

I don’t know what that means. Do you have a picture by chance?

Put this...

Anchor bend - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

on a shackle, then you can shackle it to the standing part of the line to girth hitch the tree. The anchor bend(hitch) is one of the strongest knots, with only a ~20% loss in strength. Leave more tail than they show in the title pic though. About 3" is right.

 

[WoodCutr]

Hoping not watching Bob Villa or Daniel Murphy vids. Or early Wrangler Star

I tried to suppress the memories of the one time I watched Dan do tree work!
I feel like I saw Bob drop a tree using a "V" cut like I would do for a crane pick, hoping his best that it would go where he wanted, dudes an idiot with a TV show

 

[SeanKroll]

Welcome!



A base-tie will lose a lot of load to friction at the redirects in the crown.

Your pull force will exceed what your knot sees.

A tension- ess hitch is strong... basically trunk wraps down to a tie-off.


Back up with wedges.

Don't split an included- bark fork.

 

[Mellow]

Is it as simple as using a spliced loop and running the entire rope back through the hole?

No.

Or, for convenience, a strong carabiner clipped on to the spliced loop, and then around the rope, then up the tree it goes?

Do this. ^^^

 

[ToddE]

No.

Do this. ^^^

Any recommendations for a strong, cheap, carabiner that would work well in this scenario? I see so many shapes, ratings, materials etc. I would only use it for this task basically.

 

[lxskllr]

A shackle is cheaper and less directionally dependent.

 

[Eric H-L]

At the risk of complicating Todd’s decision I have a question for the experts.
For one time (or very occasional) would a shackle be a better choice to get strong and inexpensive? I can see the advantages of speed with a carabiner for frequent use. Personal preference?

 

[Eric H-L]

A shackle is cheaper and less directionally dependent.

Haha. My question crossed your answer in the internet.

 

[ToddE]

Shackle makes sense. Strong, cheap, and easily found locally. Thanks y'all. I will update the thread once all my new equipment shows up and I safely have the trees on the ground.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

Reasonably, the Maasdam can't get much over 900 lbs of pull. It may stand a 1500 pull, but not generate it. 900 lbs of pull on the Maasdam means 90 lbs applied at the handle, as it has a built-in 10/1 mechanical advantage. It's already a pretty good pull done with your hand. I can't see how one can put 150lbs on the handle, beside two guys on the handle, which is frowned on.
More, over this (estimated) value, the rope begins to be mangled by the ratchet bollard, Not a good practice in my book.

Beside that I find it more limited than the claim of the marketing, I love this device. It's very useful and can do a lot of work. Just have a bit less expectations than those pretended in the adds and be careful with the evaluation of the actual load. The lean or an unbalanced crown can be more important than the tree's size. Same with the wind.

As a common practice, put the rope high in the tree to benefit of the bigger lever arm and make your pull more effective. An other point, don't count on the rope and puller to avoid your house. It's an aid to help to move the tree, but basically, the control is made (or should be) by the way you cut the trunk (skills and practice involved).

Oh, with such a pulling value, no need to worry much about the rope's strength or the connection means. An aluminum climbing carabiner does the job no problem, even if it's usually preferable to use the steel ones for rigging. Anyway, just be sure that the gate is well locked and stays locked. The steels shackles are very sturdy but it take more time to set them, plus you need your both hands and with the risk of loosing this damned screw pin.

 

[Eric H-L]

@ToddE
Did you cut that tree down? I am curious how it went. Pictures please.