rumination
Migratory Hippie Arbolist
This is one of those gems of a thread that I really didn't need to read.
Notchless Felling?
- Thread starter RopeArmour
- Start date
- Replies 216
- Views 18K
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Ban him? Really???
What does he contribute to the place?
He only checks in once in a while to stir shit up.
Which he does very well, I must admit.
Slim reason for banning, admittedly, but he seriously frigs up the equlibrium of the House.
Now go ahead and delete this, please. I shouldn't have written it in an open thread.
He only checks in once in a while to stir shit up.
Which he does very well, I must admit.
Slim reason for banning, admittedly, but he seriously frigs up the equlibrium of the House.
Now go ahead and delete this, please. I shouldn't have written it in an open thread.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Water off a duck's back. 
sawinredneck
Treehouser
I wish there was a "like" button right now, I'd "like" both of Stigs last posts!
I'm sure most of us would be willing to discuss things with Daniel, but he comes of condescending to everyone and is instant that he's right, with no room for discussion, PERIOD!
I can be a hard headed bastard, but I'll at least shut up and listen to someone else's ideas to see how I can improve. I guess I need to take my wife out with me and start videoing some of the stupid shit I do so I can be an "expert" as well, cause we all know if it's on youtube you have to be an expert!
I'm sure most of us would be willing to discuss things with Daniel, but he comes of condescending to everyone and is instant that he's right, with no room for discussion, PERIOD!
I can be a hard headed bastard, but I'll at least shut up and listen to someone else's ideas to see how I can improve. I guess I need to take my wife out with me and start videoing some of the stupid shit I do so I can be an "expert" as well, cause we all know if it's on youtube you have to be an expert!
flushcut
TreeHouser
I just read over his posts he is going to say what he is going to say and that really has no bearing on what I am going to do.
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
Its all good Stig...
In America we have this thing called free speech.
Which means you're allowed to hate me, And I AM allowed to not care.. LOL
As heated as these conversations can get, they do serve a purpose.. They get people thinking..
And they get me motivated to shoot some video... (try it sometime Andy.. and you'll learn something)
Took down a decent sized oak last week, right after this thread started... half over the street, and half over and through a specimen Jap maple... Maybe 40-50 cuts and exactly two notches.. one for the top and one for the stick..
NICE video... got it down to 13 minutes right now... Probably would have left the camera home if it weren't for the house! SO thank you
In America we have this thing called free speech.
Which means you're allowed to hate me, And I AM allowed to not care.. LOL
As heated as these conversations can get, they do serve a purpose.. They get people thinking..
And they get me motivated to shoot some video... (try it sometime Andy.. and you'll learn something)
Took down a decent sized oak last week, right after this thread started... half over the street, and half over and through a specimen Jap maple... Maybe 40-50 cuts and exactly two notches.. one for the top and one for the stick..
NICE video... got it down to 13 minutes right now... Probably would have left the camera home if it weren't for the house! SO thank you
Wheras in oppressed, communist Euroipe, we can't speak freely or Big Brother will get on our case......................Right.
I don't hate you Daniel, I just dislike you severely and think this place would be better off without you.
I don't hate you Daniel, I just dislike you severely and think this place would be better off without you.
rangerdanger
TreeHouser
^^^^^ I second the Dane!
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
Ya'all just like to pat yourselves on the back and congratulate yourselves on being the best tree men in the world.. Any one that mentions "the emperor has no clothes" upsets the equilibrium.... LOL
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I'm doing my best to ignore your "posts."
Page
TreeHouser
come on guys, I might not agree with murph either but who cares if he is posting on the TH. if you don't like it, don't respond to it. things can be learned from anyone, hell maybe even murph. anyway I'm trying not to ramble on but don't get pulled into the drama if you don't want to be. I always like to hear new opinions, then I'll make my own choices.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Yep. This ain't AS!
gf beranek
Old Schooler
And the beat goes on....
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
in the faint hope of contributing something positive to this thread, and maybe even getting it back on topic, I did try the OP's suggestion on a couple trees yesterday.. Gotta say in one case I was very happy to have the option.. The hollow cherry didn't have much of anything to use as a hinge.. we had a pull line on the skid loader and no valuable targets.. so it was going to the lay and was a one and done cut.... NICE
On the large dry sweetgum it worked out OK too, slight lean towards the open field.. had to cut from both sides with a 28" bar.. It went well, but I kept asking myself during the cut... "what's my motivation here?" My instinct kept telling me to "stop this nonsense".. and put a face in her... what if I read the lean wrong and it sits back on the saw, and then a wind comes up... it just felt wrong.. I had to override the instinct and re-assure myself this tree absolutely has front lean and there is no way its going to hit anything but grass. there was 180º wide open to the grass. And so it was, but it did fall maybe 5-10º from where I had expected ...
I give the technique an A+ for these two trees... no wedge, no hammer, no pull line on the second tree... worked out pretty well... unusual situation though
On the large dry sweetgum it worked out OK too, slight lean towards the open field.. had to cut from both sides with a 28" bar.. It went well, but I kept asking myself during the cut... "what's my motivation here?" My instinct kept telling me to "stop this nonsense".. and put a face in her... what if I read the lean wrong and it sits back on the saw, and then a wind comes up... it just felt wrong.. I had to override the instinct and re-assure myself this tree absolutely has front lean and there is no way its going to hit anything but grass. there was 180º wide open to the grass. And so it was, but it did fall maybe 5-10º from where I had expected ...
I give the technique an A+ for these two trees... no wedge, no hammer, no pull line on the second tree... worked out pretty well... unusual situation though
Attachments
sawinredneck
Treehouser
On the Cherry, maybe, the other, not in my lifetime!
I still remember the stern lectures I got for ALAP'ing trees for firewood when felling them. I never had a problem with a butt coming back on me, but after hearing about it, then thinking about it, it certainly did enlighten me! I was ALAP'ing firewood tree's much the same you are talking about. I'd make a notch opening on the top then make the back cut even with the bottom of the notch. Doing much the same as you are describing, trying to get as much wood on the trailer as fast as possible, and leave as low a stump as I could to clear the mini.
In THEORY, this sounds all fine and dandy, but I left out the part of the butt of the tree coming back on me, much like a barberchair. With the back cut higher than the notch, it leaves something to hold the butt and hopefully push it forward. After thinking about it, I get the physics of it!
I know you fancy me as an idiot, and I'm alright with that, but I assure you, I am not! I've learned a lot of lessons the hard way, taken what everyone on here, and elsewhere has had to say and process it. I've done thing's right and had them go wrong, I've done things wrong and had them go right, there is no way to know what way it will ever go!
On another forum I'm on a guy is telling people he has years of electrical experience and it's OK for people to constantly push Lithium Ion batteries past there rated output. This is for electric cigarettes, so these things are in your mouth and close to your face. I don't know if you have seen a Li-Ion battery vent, but it's not pretty! Myself, as well as many others, are trying to dissuade this practice, as it's unsafe! We've gotten so far as to get the moderates of the site to force him to put in a disclaimer that he is using/promoting unsafe practices.
Maybe that is what is needed here? I get wanting to be "cutting edge" and I get having a death wish, but I see no point in promoting questionable practices under the guise of being a professional and suggesting they are safe for anyone to use. I guess this is my biggest problem.
I still remember the stern lectures I got for ALAP'ing trees for firewood when felling them. I never had a problem with a butt coming back on me, but after hearing about it, then thinking about it, it certainly did enlighten me! I was ALAP'ing firewood tree's much the same you are talking about. I'd make a notch opening on the top then make the back cut even with the bottom of the notch. Doing much the same as you are describing, trying to get as much wood on the trailer as fast as possible, and leave as low a stump as I could to clear the mini.
In THEORY, this sounds all fine and dandy, but I left out the part of the butt of the tree coming back on me, much like a barberchair. With the back cut higher than the notch, it leaves something to hold the butt and hopefully push it forward. After thinking about it, I get the physics of it!
I know you fancy me as an idiot, and I'm alright with that, but I assure you, I am not! I've learned a lot of lessons the hard way, taken what everyone on here, and elsewhere has had to say and process it. I've done thing's right and had them go wrong, I've done things wrong and had them go right, there is no way to know what way it will ever go!
On another forum I'm on a guy is telling people he has years of electrical experience and it's OK for people to constantly push Lithium Ion batteries past there rated output. This is for electric cigarettes, so these things are in your mouth and close to your face. I don't know if you have seen a Li-Ion battery vent, but it's not pretty! Myself, as well as many others, are trying to dissuade this practice, as it's unsafe! We've gotten so far as to get the moderates of the site to force him to put in a disclaimer that he is using/promoting unsafe practices.
Maybe that is what is needed here? I get wanting to be "cutting edge" and I get having a death wish, but I see no point in promoting questionable practices under the guise of being a professional and suggesting they are safe for anyone to use. I guess this is my biggest problem.
woodworkingboy
TreeHouser
I can align to your way of thinking, Andy. We have people here that sometimes have fairly short term experience. Is it wise to show methods that may work in limited situations, but can also have negative repercussions if they aren't used with a lot of experience behind it? Not saying that something different from what is accepted within the general scope of things, can't be brought up, but it does require caution and consideration when putting it out there. I don't think that Dan is particularly callous about ignoring the risks when offering his own methods, I seem to recall that some of his vids mention the hazards. Perhaps he could have more consistency about that? Always being careful in every way is important, enforcing that. It is risky enough under normal circumstances when being careful.
RopeArmour
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #146
Three truths.
I am lucky to be alive and when felling, notches are the best practice.
If you do decide to give it a tree, keep in mind where exactly your tipping point is
and and how it will react.
If you use one flare it can pivot and twist and if you use two we will have more control.
In my mind the technique moves your hinge out into the sapwood which can be advantageous or cause you
great dispair.
I am lucky to be alive and when felling, notches are the best practice.
If you do decide to give it a tree, keep in mind where exactly your tipping point is
and and how it will react.
If you use one flare it can pivot and twist and if you use two we will have more control.
In my mind the technique moves your hinge out into the sapwood which can be advantageous or cause you
great dispair.
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
That is not the way of it bro.. we're all just out there trying to make a living... Hope you're well...
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
802climber
TreeHouser
If you are talking about using the "flares" to hold your kerf open or control the lay, it's a guessing game...
I am reluctant to even post these pics, but here goes..
I spent a season climbing and cutting Midwestern Walnut and White Oak. Which are very finicky species to cut in the first place. To me, notchless cutting of big wood must also be hingeless cutting or else it is suicide. I learned several methods of bucking them right off the stump...I don't even call it falling, just flopping them over wherever they want to go. Very little control, very very dangerous and stupid, and once you get decent at it, the butts really slip the stump because there is zero holding wood. I cut timber like this for one season and only smashed one saw. Every once in awhile I would notch one, bore out the center of the hinge, make kerf cuts, etc, but it was frowned upon in that wacko industry to loose those precious few inches.
It is still a cool party trick for Residential work. Opened my mind for what is possible.
I am reluctant to even post these pics, but here goes..
I spent a season climbing and cutting Midwestern Walnut and White Oak. Which are very finicky species to cut in the first place. To me, notchless cutting of big wood must also be hingeless cutting or else it is suicide. I learned several methods of bucking them right off the stump...I don't even call it falling, just flopping them over wherever they want to go. Very little control, very very dangerous and stupid, and once you get decent at it, the butts really slip the stump because there is zero holding wood. I cut timber like this for one season and only smashed one saw. Every once in awhile I would notch one, bore out the center of the hinge, make kerf cuts, etc, but it was frowned upon in that wacko industry to loose those precious few inches.
It is still a cool party trick for Residential work. Opened my mind for what is possible.
murphy4trees
TreeHouser
I like this guy!