Notch question?

[bstewert]

I have a small holly tree, about 8"dbh & 25' tall, to take down. There is only one direction to fall without smushing existing plants. Unfortunately, right in that path, about a foot from the base of the holly is a single ornamental, approx 3' tall by 5' wide. If I made the cut about 3' high and could keep the butt end on the stump after it falls over, then I could lift it off and over the shrub.

Is there a way to do this? Thanks in advance.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Yes.

 

[bstewert]

Leave the hinge too big and pull it over with a tag line?

 

[pantheraba]

That is what I have done.

 

[Burnham]

I don't have any experience with holly. If it is strong (and I suspect it is), then put in a wide face, wide enough that it will not close before the top settles on the ground. I'd go an extra foot higher, about 4 feet. As you postulate, a thickish hinge and pull it over...it should stay attached. If you really want to buy insurance, go 5 feet high and tie the butt to the stump with an eye sling, so if the hinge breaks, the butt won't drop far.

 

[MasterBlaster]

You won't go wrong doing that.

 

[Burnham]

The key is the wide face, a bird's mouth of 70 degrees or so.

 

[pantheraba]

And keep your thumb wrapped around the handle of the saw....

 

[bstewert]

I like the idea of tying the butt to the stump. Never tried that. This will be a nice small tree to practice it on. OK, got it on the wide face. Still leave a big hinge and pull it over?

 

[pantheraba]

Yes, the butt tie is in case the hinge breaks...thick hinge to break the tree over the hinge without breaking off the stump.

I suppose if you wanted to get fancy you could put a rope in the top of the tree and run it through a block in a nearby tree...ideally in the direction of the fall. That top rope could catch the weight at some point in the fall and you could float the tree over the ornamental...you would need to be able to control both lines, top line and butt line.

Kind of like this...probably more complicated than you need...but it might be good practice.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hhJhp52wyj8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[bstewert]

Yes, the butt tie is in case the hinge breaks...thick hinge to break the tree over the hinge without breaking off the stump.

I suppose if you wanted to get fancy you could put a rope in the top of the tree and run it through a block in a nearby tree...ideally in the direction of the fall. That top rope could catch the weight at some point in the fall and you could float the tree over the ornamental...you would need to be able to control both lines, top line and butt line.

Kind of like this...probably more complicated than you need...but it might be good practice.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hhJhp52wyj8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Funny you mention that . . . I did two branches like that today.

 

[murphy4trees]

Holly is not a good hinging wood...

if you make the notch over 90 degrees and the top comes down easy, you'll probably be OK.. A lot has to do with the way the top hits... if it wants to roll, slide or bounce, that'll generally blow the hinge up. If the holly is symmetrical, the branching structure will soften the landing, BUT it could blow up anyway with poor hinging wood like holly.

If you have an overhead anchor point, you could also try tying a lowering line at or very close to the balance point (leave it slightly tip heavy). Sweat the line in tight..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g0IxZL7xwo
Here's one I floated over a 6' fence at 0:34

 

[flynhigh]

Wow well done murphystrees!,

 

[murphy4trees]

Wow well done murphystrees!,

Thanks,
But you haven't been around long enough to know you're not allowed to say that around here!

 

[bstewert]

No overhead anchor point, or even anything in line.

 

[flushcut]

Have you thought about digging out the small shrub and replanting it after the tree comes down? I have to do that quite a bit for access with the mini and stumper it works out pretty well.

 

[bstewert]

The soil is pretty crappy so digging out thew shrub might take 3 hours, especially with all the tree roots. But I have done that in other cases. The sawhorse idea is great! I was trying to picture some sort of temporary structure I could build over the shrub.

Not clear on the "vertical notch in the back".

 

[bstewert]

I've seen the pic of Greg's notch. Sounds like you have to do a bit of sculpting. In Greg's pic, it looks like he did a vertical plunge cut first. I don't have enough tree to do that.

 

[sotc]

Gap face.
Just stop your cuts before they meet and bust the face out with the back of your axe.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Could vertical bore behind the hinge as well. I believe it has been discussed by Stig and some here in the past. Makes the hinge more flexible. You might not have enough stem to work with though.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

My thoughts as well,, just throwing it out there..

 

[stig]

In front of the hinge, not in back, Stephen.

The "gap face" or block undercut is what I use on all pull trees these days.
I used to just cut a "German", the vertical cut in front and below the hinge, but last year I had a talk with Jerry B. about hinges and how a lot of falling trees is simply knowing how fibers bend on different species, so on his recommendation ( he just said that in his experience, the block facecut , busted out with an axe so no fibers are cut through, gave the strongest, most bendable hinge.)

Since I am perfectly willing to listen and learn when those I consider my betters in the trade speak, I implemented his way as soon as I got home.
Only I don't bust it out with an axe, since that would be a major undertaking on the hardwoods I primarily work in ( but I totally see the reason for doing it, whenever possible!).

The verdict is that it works quite a bit better than just cutting a German, so I'll stick with it.

And Martin, the apprentice , is going to blow some minds when he goes back to forestry school and they get to pulling trees

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Thanks Stig. My computer is down and I thought I had a sketch of the German but I can't access it. Tried to get a mental picture, but it has been a while. Thanks for clarifying it for me

 

[treesmith]

Stig, I vaguely remember that being discussed. Would you happen to have a picture(s)? Or did you already post some in another thread perhaps? I can't exactly visualize what you mean.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

And Martin, the apprentice , is going to blow some minds when he goes back to forestry school and they get to pulling trees