Loop Runners

[bonner1040]

So Scott, Treesmith, and I have talked quite a bit about loop runners and they have popped up in different threads. I personally use them all the time for a myriad of tasks.

I made some up a couple of months back and they have been working marvelously. I used Maxim 5mm tech cord, with one end fixed to a simple biner with a double fishermans, the other end is a yosemite bowline loop cranked down tight with the tail snipped short forming a 3 or 4" eye. Overall sling length is around 48". I keep the eye clipped to the biner which gives me a loop ~24" long, I can easily girth this loop around a branch, tool, etc with the biner being captive @ the end. If you need more length just unclip the eye and girth the single line around the object through the eye, again you have the biner fixed at the end. The Maxim 5mm tech cord is rated at 5000 pounds so doubled up in basket its way strong and with the single line it is still sufficient for most tasks.

As far as applications, I use them for knotless rigging, climbing line redirects, speedlining, mechanical advantage, holding tools for cabling etc, rigging prussiks, tying bushes back, anything. IMHO the 5mm is perfect, they are supersmall, bite really hard on even the smoothest wood, ridiculously strong, fit on my saddle really well, and the adjustable length configuration is really convenient.

In the past I had always used 1" tube webbing bartacked or tied in loops but have found it to be bulky and not super friendly. The maxim stuff, I originally used tied in loops but the knot was inconvenient and they were not as versatile as the adjustable configuration. @ $.85/foot it isn't the cheapest but it is still more economical than buying sewn nylon loop runners.

What do you guys use? Material? Lengths? Applications? Neat tricks?

I know some of this stuff is rehashed from past posts...

https://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=1383

 

[Jack]

Good thread Nick. I like the 5mm you use. I'll have to try it.

I've been using 1" tubular webbing for rigging (orange 5') and rated sewn webbing for life support (yellow 4').

The rigging loops are made with a beer knot, fastened to a bent gate with a bull hitch and a 'blue bandit'.

The life support loops are purchased, fastened to a William Ball Lock with a bull hitch and a 'blue bandit'.

I usually climb with two of each. But, if I'm doing speed lining I carry up to 20 on large utility 'biners.

All the runners are carried with a 'skein' knot for simplicity and compactness.

 

[bonner1040]

Did you see the hazard associated with loop runners and the Petzl String, something similar to the blue bandit? I posted it a while back, it may not apply since the biner is knotted to the sling in your case... however I am not familiar with the bull hitch.

http://vimeo.com/4138205
http://climbingnarc.com/2010/06/accident-at-new-river-gorge-offers-learning-experience/

That is a nice neat setup though.. Do you like the bent gates? I love my wire gates.. Both are a rock climbing thing.

I dont use my rigging ones for life support but I will use them for positioning... I have girthed them to a branch and clipped to my bridge to hang comfortably if my rope angle is way off or something. I also progressed out under a branch I couldnt walk that way... Always tied in but leapfrogging up and out with 2 loop runners, hard work but I got out there!

Are they 4 and 5 FEET? respectively?

YOU would be amazed at the bulk/size/weight difference of 20 of the maxims one vs 20 tubular webbing ones with all the same length slings.

 

[Jack]

Yeah, I've seen the 'String' notice. True, it does not apply in this case. Actually, I think the 'blue bandit' borders on silly except to stabilize a knot, as I've done. The bull hitch is simply a cow hitch with an extra turn.

The thing about a Black Diamond bent gate is the key slot in the gate ... there's no 'hook' to snag like on a wire gate.

I use the yellow loop for 'stirrups' & redirects ... but I use a DEDA lanyard for leapfrogging and other positioning.

You'll have to try the 'skein' knot to stow your loops - neat & fast to tie/untie. I learned it from my aunt's knitting.
Anyway, I do find the loops snag a bit on the rough stuff like Black Oak.
I was working up a TreeStuff order ... NOW, I guess I'll have to add some of that 5mm cordage :roll: ... maybe I'll have to take something off the order :roll:


Thanks for the tip, Nick!

 

[bonner1040]

Buy a bunch of it ! It is such handy stuff that you will immediately want more once you have utilized all of it...

Did you see the Remote rigging thing we were talking about? I started another thread about it..

 

[Jack]

OK! Ya got me ... I just ordered a bunch of it ... I'll post some pix when it arrives ... LUV NEW CHIT!!!

 

[bonner1040]

Ya better because without pics...

....it never happened!

 

[Jack]

 

[Marc-Antoine]

I have 5 slings made from PP 3 strands in 14 mm (9/26"), the cheapo rope "home depot like". Each sling has its biner and hangs on my saddle almost all the time.
Length around 4', but not a loop, it's spliced at the both ends, one tight and one large enough to get the biner throw.
The most frequent use is the self rigging. Knot-less rigging in second position.
It makes a strong and easy handling chainsaw lanyard for the ms440 and 066. For the pole pruner too (3 tied in line).
Time to time, it becomes handy as a secondary lanyard for work positioning, put a redirect, or even lengthening my short climbing rope when I'm too short by 2 or 3 feet in a wide crown ( not a good practice, I know).

 

[bonner1040]

Jack, one thing to note with the Maxim cord is that it is extremely stiff, more so than most other textiles I am familiar with. IMO this a benefit, it makes it stow really neat and gives it a predictable flip, the caveat is that you need to make sure your knots are tied, dressed, and set with a generous bit of tail.

Once they really 'set in' with some weight you can trim the tails back a bit, for the double fishermans and bowlines I used I went with about 2 inches of tail and have since trimmed them to 1/2", once set they haven't moved a bit. That said I had to remove a biner from one of the constricted double-fishermans and I had to saw it off with my multitool.

It took a bit to trust them @ 5mm, they are really thin, but I have done a few complete takedowns rigging all the limbwood and everything with just those slings.

I have been meaning to string up a piece of buttwood from a crane job and put the 5000# rating to the test. When I do I will get some pictures, wont that be a treat? A 40"x8' piece a pin oak held by a single 5mm sling!

 

[SkwerI]

I use a bunch of the standard 1" loop runners attached to the steel captive eye carabiners. I've gone almost exclusively with the 48" loops as the smallest limbs can be held by hand. My most common use for the loop runners is lifting limbs with the material handler on my boom and lowering them to the landing zone.

I have some homemade 5/8" double braid slings with spliced eyes and steel rescue carabiners for rigging bigger limbs.

 

[gf beranek]

Here's a video I did some years ago using loop runners. Used them long before the internet came about

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[bonner1040]

I have wanted to try those captive biners with the pin for quite a while.

 

[bonner1040]

"Stow your climbline" I could have used that one the other day...

Thanks for sharing Ger!

 

[gf beranek]

The captive part is certainly OK, but not essential if you pay attention.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I bet I have all those loop runners! Thanks, my friend!

 

[SkwerI]

I bet I have all those loop runners! Thanks, my friend!

And a nice 1/2" aluminum block as well. I remember that awesome care package. Thanks Jerry!

 

[flushcut]

Loop runners rock.

 

[treesmith]

I have 5 loop runners that I keep handy. I used them yesterday and today to zipline some smallish limbs out from over a house. I will go up to ~500# when there is enough room for the rope sag, as the runners aren't really holding the load as much as controlling the fall of the load.

I like the DMM captive eye carabiners form Wesspur.......

 

[SkwerI]

Scott, those carabiners look great except for the pinned gate. I've been spoiled by keyed gates that don't snag and they are my first requirement on any carabiner I buy.

 

[treesmith]

Yeah, the pinned gate is a hassle, but my first non-lockers didn't have the captive eye, and I like to girth hitch my loop runners, so I definitely prefer the eye. All my zip line runners have pinned gate biners. As long as you pay attention, they're not too bad to snag. Keyed gates would definitely shine!

 

[Jack]

Scott, those carabiners look great except for the pinned gate. I've been spoiled by keyed gates that don't snag and they are my first requirement on any carabiner I buy.

+1 on the keyed-gates ... bought 7 more on sale today in anticipation of receiving my "Maxim" chord tomorrow but, it should be noted, speed lining is my favorite

 

[arborworks1]

We had a rather simple job removing a few limbs over a houselast week. Highly exposed to traffic. Set up a contolled speed line and got after it. 50 ft zip over the house and out to the idling chipper.

I had 6 messages on the machine about that 2 hour long job.
Loop runners made it so...

 

[treesmith]

We had a rather simple job removing a few limbs over a houselast week. Highly exposed to traffic. Set up a contolled speed line and got after it. 50 ft zip over the house and out to the idling chipper.

I had 6 messages on the machine about that 2 hour long job.
Loop runners made it so...

(a)quick
(b)fun
(c)easy
(d) all the above

I'm going with D on this one....

 

[CurSedVoyce]

+1