smallest diameter with which you are comfortable?

[Spellfeller]

Hi, all:

With your help, I've boiled my reservations about the current weekend warrior project down to the fact that to climb to the top of this little number will put me a) at the highest working height I've been yet and b) on the smallest diameter wood too. (Funny how they go together!) I'm also not in love with the fact that each union takes me further to the right, more and more cantilevered away from the trunk.

In short, the pucker factor for this newb is high.

What I know is that the tree SEEMS healthy, i.e. EAB doesn't look to have had any visible effect on the integrity of the wood yet, and the leader should be about 5" in diameter just below the crown (at the top red mark).

Two questions then:
1. While I know no one can offer any guarantees via the Intertubes, SHOULD that wood be sufficient to hold a 160# (before gear) quivering ball of nervous sweat?
2. What's the smallest wood you are comfortable using spurs on, with no climb line above?

 

[Spellfeller]

For instance, one the most helpful vids recently is this one of Stephen's, where he SEEMS to be on some pretty thin stuff!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/A7AEHKN-wvw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(Of course, nothing on YouTube should EVER be meant as a substitute for proper training!)

 

[treesmith]

I climbed a dead pine Friday that was 85-ish feet tall, and went all the way to the top branch union. It got down to about 4" where I stopped. I zipped all but one limb out to my son-in-law, cautioning him to use just enough pull to guide the higher limbs in the right direction, so as not to overload the top. I roped down the highest limb on the back side simply because I didn't wish to be up there when it hit the belly of the zipline.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I was probably on no less than 3" for my life line on that oak. Good species up to that. Flip line/positioning lanyard I will ofte n use multiple.smaller limbs for work positioning. Try to make 3" on one or two or even 3 limbs. Or the size I would feel comfortable on in that particular species IOW. Just work positioning though. Not hanging my life from them. Again species dependant. Tree health will also factor in.

 

[Mick!]

For me it's all about species. Oaks are trustworthy, poplars at least double what I'd be happy be with on an oak.
There's no magic formula.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Good post, Mick.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Yup, well said Mick...

 

[treesmith]

Then, too, it's all about angles... With that ash leaning the way it is, I'd want to lean more toward caution. I've only seem one top snap out and dump a climber, and I hope never to see it again. That was 24 years ago, while I was running an Asplundh crew. It was a cold morning, and we were trimming a small stand of trees along a primary. The climber had tied in to a sweet gum that was 35-40 feet tall, side-trimmed it down, and was kicking clear of his brush when the top snapped out a few feet below his TIP. He fell about 5', landing on his rump, and as the falling top missed him, it was a humorous teachable moment.

 

[Grendel]

There was just a post over on the Buzz about an Ash TIP failure. What do you have target wise underneath Spell? Consider setting a pull line and dumping the whole top from around your second hash mark. If you don't have anyone on the ground you can always set your line, tension it, then climb and cut. Maybe even hang some weight mid-line to maintain tension once she starts going over.

Keep us updated

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

Ash dying from EAB, go larger. That treebuzz thread http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/tie-in-fail.31354/ sounds like a poor routing of the rope, with a poor/ As high as possible TIP, with decay, compounded into a fail.

 

[DMc]

....Two questions then:
1. While I know no one can offer any guarantees via the Intertubes, SHOULD that wood be sufficient to hold a 160# (before gear) quivering ball of nervous sweat?
2. What's the smallest wood you are comfortable using spurs on, with no climb line above?...

Judging how much smaller wood will support takes a lot of experience and even then you can be wrong. You are low on experience so you are wise to be concerned. I will commonly spur into 5 inch wood with no top rope, if it is being loaded in compression and is alive and solid. Ash trees in particular are not trustworthy in side/shear loads.

One technique that can reduce under canopy damage while not stressing the tree you are in, is to make cuts that are vertical so the limbs will spear straight down.

When choosing between under canopy survival and your own, always pick yourself as the more important.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

You have to cut fast to get them to drop before they tip out too much. A sharp 200t comes in to play here. Watch for overhanging branches from swiping you on the way down. Some compromise between getting them to drop in the position you're in, versus letting them tip some. When you're cutting them, and they start tipping, with two hands on the saw, flick the butt outward, away from the cut, with the side of the bar. Finish the cut downward with some side pressure that will push the butt back more toward vertical. Leaves will help it to go butt first due to air drag. Branches will tend to catch more resistance than the butt.

sometimes Known As a Spear Cut/ Salami cut.

 

[Grendel]

Ash dying from EAB, go larger. That treebuzz thread http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/tie-in-fail.31354/ sounds like a poor routing of the rope, with a poor/ As high as possible TIP, with decay, compounded into a fail.

Agree Sean. Setting the line at the shoulder, or providing for additional catches below would likely have prevented that fall. Still, Ash can have a really weird grain structure. Big fat rings of curling grain and knuckles of old knots where you wouldn't expect them, cauldrons of muck in invisible skyward hollows, ext. . .

 

[biggun]

From the picture. I would throw line into the tree on the left the se a high anchor in that. Either traverse across or spike from the floor if the whole tree is going. Work bottom up then back down on the stem.

 

[Sgriff]

Is there 6" tall stub at 2nd line from the bottom?

 

[Limbrat]

Jeff, if I was concerned about the integrity of the tree, I'd not only set my TIP lower, but if you must piece the top out, I'd position myself lower as well and use a pole saw to take off each branch. Don't know if you've procured one yet, but a quality pole saw/pruner is a good investment. Position yourself as low as you feel safe and go from there. If you have to lower everything, rig off a nearby tree if you're on questionable wood.

 

[Altissimus]

...gets scary way up in limber / dead tops ... Part of it. Not as bad later.

 

[Spellfeller]

You guys are awesome. There is so much wisdom in this thread, I have to go back and capture all the nuggets!

Just a quick post to let you know that the tree is down with no injuries, no property damage, and MINIMAL damage to the understory!

More details to follow in the Misadventures thread...

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Looking forward to the pictures. All's well that lands well

 

[pantheraba]

Looking forward to the pictures. All's well that lands well

hahaha...good one, Stephen. I had one like that today. I'll post picts a bit later.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

Dropping the top off a tree first can reduce the effect of the top pushing on the stem. At the least, you can leave some branches below as energy dampeners.

 

[Spellfeller]

VERY interesting, Sean.

Makes good sense, provided the top has room to rebound off the lower limbs and enough momentum not to get stuck, eh?

 

[pantheraba]

Jeff...hijacking your thread a bit...for me, today's work was not so much about small diameter as it was quality of limb attachment. I helped my brother-in-law remove an oak that was near his house with a slight lean towards the house (on a diagonal). The top had broken out years ago and several limbs took off straight up and some over his roof. He plans to replace the roof in about 2 months so we decided to do the treework now.

There was also a big limb tearoff years ago that never healed...there was a cavity at about 30 feet up that was big enough for a basketball...about 65% of the circumference was still there, and about 3-4 inches thick...it would be a great place for the tree to fail under a wind or ice load one day.

I cleared limbs off the trunk on the way up and then started taking small pieces from the top limbs. The main rigging limb I used was mostly attached to the remaining trunk wall (about 3 " thick) and the other limbs had suspect unions. We rigged it all natural crotch...was able to side cut the limbs over the house and have them rotate back towards the rigging point (about 8 feet away from the house) so that most of the house limbs cleared the house with just a light brushing across the shingles.

We put a pull line up high, set up a 3:1 hoist system to tension the spar. I plunged cut (vertical bar) to get a feel for the base strength...not good...only felt like about 3 inches rim wood. After cutting the spar down and bucking the wood I found that the trunk about 2 feet above my face cut et al was very solid. I should have tried boring up higher and I would have had better hinge wood. As it worked out, I started making my back cut, stopped to set a wedge and the tree kept moving to the pull. I quickly cut a bit more while Billy kept up the forward momentum and...all's well that lands well...to quote Stephen.

So, the tree had an awful base, from ground to about 4 feet up, then got solid for at least 10 feet, then got hollow again for most of the rest of the tree...it was a strange one for me.

The last picture is the limb I used for rigging out the rest of the top. I took some limbs off the rigging limb before using it...on the theory that I was building in a cushion of rigging abuse to compensate for me using the suspect limb union as a rigging point.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Knarley!

 

[pantheraba]

And here is a video clip of small rigging, natural crotch. Facecut with 200T, finished with handsaw so I could time it to be able to push the limb into the wind.

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