CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
A 5:1 that can handle up to 5/8ths.
Normally 1/2" is used.
You can add a z rig to a continuous puller set up or truck/equipment pull. Or a winch.
Rope diameter for pulling
- Thread starter Treeaddict
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Normally 1/2" is used.
You can add a z rig to a continuous puller set up or truck/equipment pull. Or a winch.
Treeaddict
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #27
It would be nice if someone did load cell pull tests with various trucks on pavement and dry dirt/grass.
Burnham
Woods walker
Still be a lot of variables, not really duplicable...and thus not very informative, perhaps.
Treeaddict
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #29
I hear you, truly. I just wonder what kinds of forces I’m exerting. I’m sure it’s above 1000lbs but below 10000lbs. The lack of information makes me nervous ( maybe I should limit or cut out those situations where too much force could build)
flushcut
TreeHouser
If traction is an issue add mechanical advantage. August did a load cell pull test with his mini and found his pull was about equal to the weight of the machine before breaking traction on dirt. But that is tracks not tires so I’d suspect tractive force with tires would be significantly less.
Treeaddict
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #31
That’s right!! Good call. I remember that video now I haven’t been able to find one with a Truck though. I could definitely add some mechanical advantage, but I would be nervous doing that without knowing what the truck is pulling. maybe if I dig deep enough, I can find somebody who did a load sell test with their one ton.
Burnham
Woods walker
If what you are doing with pulling is making you nervous, I'd consider that a bright red flag (or at least an orange one 
). Do something different that doesn't make you nervous.
I have posted for a couple of decades here in the TH my considered opinion that a truck mounted winch is superior in every way to pulling directly with the truck. I still find it surprising that this very versatile and useful tool is so seldom in tree companies' arsenals.
). Do something different that doesn't make you nervous.I have posted for a couple of decades here in the TH my considered opinion that a truck mounted winch is superior in every way to pulling directly with the truck. I still find it surprising that this very versatile and useful tool is so seldom in tree companies' arsenals.
Risk vs reward. If the only consequences are a couple hundred $ in rope to save a bunch of time, you might say "screw the working load". Pulling a tree back from the glass greenhouse would take more consideration.
Small trucks are weird to pull with. I'm not a big fan, but you use what you've got. Tires are slippy, and they're pretty light all things considered. I like tracks much better.
Small trucks are weird to pull with. I'm not a big fan, but you use what you've got. Tires are slippy, and they're pretty light all things considered. I like tracks much better.
Burnham
Woods walker
In using a mounted winch, one can anchor the truck to remove all slippage from the equation. Then it's just a matter of knowing the pull you can generate, subtract some for angles and friction, factor in the breaking strength of the components of gear in use, allow for a safety margin...and pull away.
Pulling with any machine, tires or tracks, gets very fuzzy because of the unknowns of friction against the surface you are on.
Pulling with any machine, tires or tracks, gets very fuzzy because of the unknowns of friction against the surface you are on.
Would the force be limited by the tire traction equally in either case, driving (4wd) or bumper winch, not anchoring the truck from behind? Seems so. Cable angled up lifting front wheel traction seems the biggest gotcha, with a redirect removing that problem.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
And, you can anchor the truck to a tree or others secure it.If what you are doing with pulling is making you nervous, I'd consider that a bright red flag (or at least an orange one
I have posted for a couple of decades here in the TH my considered opinion that a truck mounted winch is superior in every way to pulling directly with the truck. I still find it surprising that this very versatile and useful tool is so seldom in tree companies' arsenals.
A parking brake is only for two tires.
When I used my truck as a retainer line anchor, I wedged the brake pedal with a cut-to-length round of wood with truck running.
Burnham
Woods walker
As I noted above, Sean.
Altissimus
TreeHouser
I don't Pull with the truck , don't use the truck for Anchor as well.
pete mctree
Treehouser
It’s weight is less than that of a normal truck (3000lbs) and pulls a whole lot more. Would be awesome with a belly mounted winch.
Burnham
Woods walker
Moving tires offer less traction than stationary ones. You are absolutely correct regarding the upward lift, and the fix.
Treeaddict
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #41
In the case that inspired this thread the nervousness comes in because I don’t want to snap a $300+ rope. No property damage imminent. Also a chance (at least in my mind) the branches laying on the rope fail to take it to the ground and the rope comes back at me and the truck.If what you are doing with pulling is making you nervous, I'd consider that a bright red flag (or at least an orange one
I have posted for a couple of decades here in the TH my considered opinion that a truck mounted winch is superior in every way to pulling directly with the truck. I still find it surprising that this very versatile and useful tool is so seldom in tree companies' arsenals.
I 100% agree with you about the winch and it’s on the list. I too am surprised they are used so little in the YouTube videos I watch.
If I have to replace that $300 rope, it’s that much longer I have to wait for the winch😉
is your rope long enough to use it doubled over (in basket)?
Treeaddict
Treehouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #43
That is a good idea but maybe not for this scenario as it had to be redirected. Although, another block could have taken care of the other leg of rope.
Marc-Antoine
TreeHouser
I use mostly 1/2", only for the Maasdam. Awesome job for what it is and so easy to set up. A 2/1 MA widens its use.
For serious pull, it's one of my 5/8" rigging lines (I don't have a bigger diameter rope). I put it on a light continuous puller, usually used by the lines crews to pull the cables/wires. It gives a 3600 pull, a good bit over the rope's wwl (2200) but not enough to worry me too much.
When comes the heavy load, i have a 7200 tirefor, with a wire cable obviously. But I try to put it out of the arm way for the trees by adding a 5/8" rope in basket mode. Same overload as the previous puller, so that can do it. It's a very rare use, luckily because it's a real pain to move around and to set up.
To double the rope to enhance its strength, I use a block at the "basketed" end to equalize the tensions on the both legs. It's way easier achieved than trying to balance the rope by hand.
I have a 5/8" dyneema rope too, used a couple times as a side guy line for the monster trees. I planned to use it with the big tirefor (no overload here), but I have some confidence's trouble with the slipperiness. A prussik on it to pretension the guy line didn't work for example.
I very rarely pull with my van. One, it's probably lighter than your average truck (4100 empty), two, it has a very poor traction. I went stuck on a slopped stony alley because I wanted to leave a little room on one side to walk by and my wheels were just on the very side of the grass bands. Dry, short and beaten grass trying to invade the alley's hard surface, but my van behaved like it was on mud. And no, my tires aren't slick.
The stronger pull I ever made was on a monster ash. Sadly, very nice looking and still healthy (for the moment). The trunk was straight and vertical but its crown was massively unbalanced toward the back and the side. Three fence walls, a school path, a road, a bunch of com-lines and power lines, a big industrial shed for a vineyard were under it or well in reach. I was quite nervous. 5 hours of set up, with the dyneema guy line, the 7200 tirefor and the 3600 puller with a 2/1 MA. They were not maxed out but not by that much and no way only one could have done it alone. Intense. What a crash ! Almost two days to limb and buck the crown in firewood lengths!
For serious pull, it's one of my 5/8" rigging lines (I don't have a bigger diameter rope). I put it on a light continuous puller, usually used by the lines crews to pull the cables/wires. It gives a 3600 pull, a good bit over the rope's wwl (2200) but not enough to worry me too much.
When comes the heavy load, i have a 7200 tirefor, with a wire cable obviously. But I try to put it out of the arm way for the trees by adding a 5/8" rope in basket mode. Same overload as the previous puller, so that can do it. It's a very rare use, luckily because it's a real pain to move around and to set up.
To double the rope to enhance its strength, I use a block at the "basketed" end to equalize the tensions on the both legs. It's way easier achieved than trying to balance the rope by hand.
I have a 5/8" dyneema rope too, used a couple times as a side guy line for the monster trees. I planned to use it with the big tirefor (no overload here), but I have some confidence's trouble with the slipperiness. A prussik on it to pretension the guy line didn't work for example.
I very rarely pull with my van. One, it's probably lighter than your average truck (4100 empty), two, it has a very poor traction. I went stuck on a slopped stony alley because I wanted to leave a little room on one side to walk by and my wheels were just on the very side of the grass bands. Dry, short and beaten grass trying to invade the alley's hard surface, but my van behaved like it was on mud. And no, my tires aren't slick.
The stronger pull I ever made was on a monster ash. Sadly, very nice looking and still healthy (for the moment). The trunk was straight and vertical but its crown was massively unbalanced toward the back and the side. Three fence walls, a school path, a road, a bunch of com-lines and power lines, a big industrial shed for a vineyard were under it or well in reach. I was quite nervous. 5 hours of set up, with the dyneema guy line, the 7200 tirefor and the 3600 puller with a 2/1 MA. They were not maxed out but not by that much and no way only one could have done it alone. Intense. What a crash ! Almost two days to limb and buck the crown in firewood lengths!
I need a big loadcell, without going into much detail I know I can get a 30ft running start in reverse with the bucket truck and not snap a doubled up 3/4" pelican bull rope, empty box, no chipper, foot to the floor till either the barberchaired oak came off the stump or the truck broke traction (I was gentle, then increasingly harder pulls and bumps till she moved, was really bad)
ill admit it was stupid, and the neighbor got a video of the barber chair too!
the recommended diameter rope is always "big enough and then some" IMO, if a 1/2" will maybe do it I always grab the 3/4", just safer that way
anyone wanna come out and play with a load cell with me?
ill admit it was stupid, and the neighbor got a video of the barber chair too!
the recommended diameter rope is always "big enough and then some" IMO, if a 1/2" will maybe do it I always grab the 3/4", just safer that way
anyone wanna come out and play with a load cell with me?
Nutball
TreeHouser
Length of the rope matters some, as well as anything else that can absorb shock (tree flexing, stump moving in the dirt.
1000 ft/lbs as far as I know means an average of 1000lbs of force over a distance of 1 ft. ft/lb is energy, so if you change how the energy is transferred the energy transfer is the same, but the force and duration/distance change. 1000 ft/lb stopped in 1 inch of distance averages 12,000lbs. 1000ft/lb stopped over 5 feet of log flex averages 200lb of force.
Just get a device to measure the load on your rope, either a springy analog meter, or a digital one.
hadnt even considered that really
had about 40ft of run so 80ft of rope but doubled over
cant find any published stretch numbers but I know it felt pretty solid and not much spring to it
SeanKroll
Treehouser
Doubling over splits the elasticity that reduces peak impact force.
If you had 50 legs, it would be like a thick, steel cable.
If you had 50 legs, it would be like a thick, steel cable.
Nutball
TreeHouser
I think it would increase the peak impact on what is pulling and being pulled, but reduce what the individual rope sees.
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