verbiage translations: Folding a tree vs. Throwing a tree


Feb 12, 2016
This is a constant internal conversation of decades for me as read posts and examinations etc.
>>especially in more common softer forwardish leans, limbs etc.
Energy is greatest with speed, e=mcSQUARED, leaving mass(M) as the unchanging, more nominal progression component to the total sum vs. the much more variable and volatile compounding of the twins(cSQUARED).
>>mass is an inescapable given here, speed a variable volume knob of much more volatile/compounding effect invoked
i, personally, define hinging scenarios as 2 opposing pure type dimensions
>>then degrees of hybrids between these 2 purebred potential limits (as the hybrid's parents) .
Purebred, most extreme range, potential usable limits as mutually exclusive alternatives or dueled parent dimensions to the rest of hybrid strategies>>
Folding: as a well setup, slow, clean, smooth, non-stalling but fully committed, artisan sawyer confidently walks cleanly away as setup pool shot plays out easing the mass's path
>>then the gargantuan more gracefully and subtley powers it's path to ground w/own force w/minimal additive of compounding 'twins' of speed multiplier
>>lower impact to sea of soil, less buried or dirty limbs to cut , ruined dirty lumber, lawn disturbance, broken sprinklers and pipes etc. as well
Throwing: as more chasing tree off the stump with saw discarding safer, subtle grace for quicker slamming force(or to me sometimes/sorry simply displacing lack of technique to get to same target/or nearby anyway)
>>can punch thru more things if needed
>>can slam harder into a dutched face for greater response back/like throwing ball harder against wall responds w/harder usable force return(gingerly resting or fluttering across dutching is NOT same as slamming that mo'fo into for the rebound force)
>>sawyer stays in killzone of batter's box thru more action as increased risk variable AND of a more violent action as multiplier to that as well reducing reaction time, and then even more so in the confusion quite possibly.
2 opposing strategies on same spectrum.
Sometimes what is prescribed for one strategy can be exact opposite for the other /opposite strategy, style(or ummmm, lack thereof).
Doc Shigo really put out there fully that hard rain drops can wreak havoc on mychors in sea of soil. Another reason for the slower/less impacting falls. Allowing some sidelean, and ballasting it out, reduces forward concussion of the remaining force. Slower grace to me is more of an artful challenge, more likely to refine skills in it's propagation; but in some s(h)ituations would need to be left behind.
When we compare notes; slow grace of slower persistent fold vs. full bull dawg of hard throw
>>can make a lot of difference between how author is trying to describe technique of facing, wedging, roping, backcutting, evac etc. from benchmark of their common strategies
More affirmative harder throw/chasing tree off stump more, harder hammer, less evac etc. of perhaps reader.
>>or vice/(re)versa
Full commitment is real target, can be by setup of mass's controlled path or raging speed or mixtures
>>when say best to serve added force inline, across thinnest axis of hinge, to target
>>and side forces of common wedge or rope input is less helpful
>>are probably talking more to slow, graceful ballet , set/evac/forget fall i think
>>when say no i use some/or all side wedge or rope force as more correct
>>probably, i think, speaking more of harder, faster throw, watch your azz more
>>if into full commitment speed as affected by added sideforce of wedge/rope angle
>>then can see where it just continues at that angle as now speed not mass is so much more fully master
>>the full commitment path more likely plays out even as sideforce is relieved
Added sideforce relief in slow fall, more controlled mass leading fall, can see where
>>tree sideforce impacts back as added rope/wedge sideforce SUDDENLY relieves
>>more chance i think of going off course at this point if (s)low speed
>>the mechanics continue to play out, now slanted perhaps even impacting to side
>>that compounding multiplier of speed fall could ignore more than nominal mass fall
So always fear some loss of translation from author to reader(s).
2 different strategies and notes from different ends of the equal/opposite dimensions of pipe model to try
>>to the same target point
>>sometimes hybrid mix of so much grace dimension + some punch dimension is best
Extremes of exception find samples of side rope to side neighbor or rear side stump
>>where rope tied, tightened to be like exaggerated off the stump Tapered Hinge effect of rope instead of wood fiber.
>>then sideforce can be VERY powerful guide, too much so, recommend way far less/if any at all, demos of science only, than even dutching.
To me, modelling from slow grace dimension of same fall;
>>Making hinge stronger to target by false loading/exercising stronger model of earlier fold on faced-target axis
>>then imbuing that same stronger hinge with side ballast of Tapered Hinge
>>to ballast out tree sideforce from equation
>>leaving only forward target axis force to be expressed
>>lasts as long as hinge, and the way to go
But perhaps not to the next artisan/sawyer or s(h)ituation.
Slower commitment is more like visions of graceful martial arts magic to me personally
>>faster commitment is more vision of bodacious like Iron Mike(Tyson) boxing at Olympics or later w/Frazier (devoid of any type of Ali Shuffle even)to me
i model for mechanical grace, and speed is added spice as i write/draw
>>Tho the great philosopher Michael Tyson is most correct:
>>"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth!”
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
Wow, sorry i missed this...
so sorry that verbiage translation thread i started
>>itself needs translating !..:O
Total watts power = resistance X ampsSQUARED
>>was shown first as Ohms Law.
Einstein repeats to wider view of all forces 75yrs later
>>Total Energy = mass X speedSQUARED
Amps is speed; in either cased it is generally this speed that kills etc.
>>in both formulas, backwards we have
total = dynamic state SQUARED x resistance to achieving that dynamic state
>>(of wire or mass resistance against achieving the dynamic state of compound multiplier)
Fold (lightness between fall and hold of tree) : To me in a slower, perhaps more graceful felling.
In this slow, mass leading fall it is easier for me to envision what i think have witnessed:
>>side load force is easier to pull off track on standard even across strip hinge/ NOT Tapered
>>like if start with wedge or rope added influence against side lean
>>tree moves, rope/wedge against side force relieves a bit
>>easier for sideforce to miss-guide the 'missile' sending
>>as not arrived at full commitment speed yet where compound multiplier takes over more
Throw (hard) of a high loaded setup w/rear, high leveraged trigger patch/release;
or hard loaded and very fast and mostly too far backcut
>>where dynamics of speedSQUARED becomes very SUDDENLY invoked,
>>overwriting all over mass's static influence in equation(s)
In this scenario, i feel it is more likely when that speed is released
>>if wedge and rope against sideforce has aligned to target
>>and speed jumps in at that point
>>i think less likely for static sideforce to pull off track
>>as the dynamic path of motion now rules so much more fully
>>over the static part of the formula(s).
So when we compare notes, and i would go with Tapered Hinge to persists after rope/wedge relief PICTURING a slower fall as i write or read from another
>>for Tapered control to persist working against side lean force until tearoff
>>as more needed
where yet in contrast fully respected others vested here/elsewhere for years of this
>>are like only need wedge and rope at start
>>gives more of a feel to me of a 'throw' of speed, rather than slower fold
>>as i read, to relate to what feel have seen/experienced.
2 parts to the formula(s) static resistance against dynamic state of the mass/as like wire resistance
>>and then the dynamic part of the equation(s)
Saying different strategy considerations for if 'leading'
>>with nominal static mass more
>>or if exponential dynamic part of equation is fast enough to completely over rule static influence (more).
Of the total; per which 'half' of formula is in charge

Math to me is the language of logical functionality
>>if this, then that for are equals or one < or > the other etc. in 'the balance'.
Kinda have taught some kids tricks, thru math to seem more magical of different patterns rather than drudgery. Given confidence that parents have thanked me for; but seems is not fer all.
a 'simple' fave bright new path for many, and new confidence
squares of multiples of 10, especially under 100, fairly easy compared to many other number squares.
Squares of 5 are about as easy, new path, confidence for many:
example 75squared
>>half way btw 70 and 80
>>70x80=5600 easy cheesy
>>add 25 even easier =5625
done, 75squared=5625
Even goes around the corner
(directly from Vedic/India philosophy and math studies)
Can guesstimate products more accurately if know range of is between 10squared and 15squared
>>rather than just that it is between 10squared and 20squared
>>aim small/miss small from Lil'House on the Prairie
>>i tell kids is part of the gunfighter way, especially boyz all over that
>>so i throw "gunfighter's reputation never made him faster;
>>only the other man slower" about not getting bluffed out up to bat
>>cuz sometimes that gunfighter is having a bad day, and rep is all he's got
>>throw hard, if nothing else ; will know more of self better.
(make'em swear not to use secret knowledge to be a gunfighter 1st etc.)
to me 10x10=100 is peak of a pyramid of number sum that add up to 20, all others less as offset
>>if go 1up/1down
>>from 10squared 'offset_1' to 9x11(still adds to 20) it is 1squared less=99
>>from 10squared 'offset_2' to 8x12(still adds to 20) it is 2squared less=96
while working from 10squared=100
>>to 11squared = simply add (2x10)+1squared = 121
>>to 12 squared = simply add (4x10)+2squared = 144
>>or 09squared = simply minus (2x10)+1squared= 81(from initial 10squared=100)
>>to 08squared = simply minus (4x10)+2squared = 64
All these patterns persist
When could have fun w/math and move powerfully;
that it was alive and not the straight military march of Father, was hooked.
After years showing 'my' strategy of the squares of 11squared from 10squared etc.
>>was shown been fumbling with version of quadratic equation
>>has served me very well all the same.
Last edited:
Your posts would be clearer if you just added some words to each sentence. You seem to use your own form of shorthand. Probably your finger-bound keystrokes can't keep up with your ludicrous-speed thoughts. It's decipherable but would be much easier with complete sentences.
Kenny only speaks in kennyisms...this has never changed in a couple of decades that I know of. We who continue to fall behind are without recourse but to try as hard as we can to understand :).