Let's fight about ropes vs wedges.

[flushcut]

Three dozen!

 

[Jed]

I use to practice fancy cutting, and it’s good to know those things when you need it, but I’d have to say that I typically just blast a throw line through the canopy and base tie it. I yank on it with the skiddy before notching to brake whatever is weak. Then notch and pull it over. It’s quick and easy and they always lay where I want. If it’s real important or high risk I’ll isolate the line. That being said, just this past Friday I used a rope and wedges. Dead tree next to the house and the skiddy was in the shop. 3 guys on the rope and no spot to anchor a system. Everyone works within their own limitations I suppose.

Yeah, man, one of the best things I've ever done in this trade is to get into the habit of setting a pull-line, but then not using it. I learned to use wedges in a resi-setting this way. I tried Buckin's back-cut first stuff this way. The lazy man (the one who DOESN'T hang a rope) can pay a terrible price, but the man who has the rope to pull him outa the bight, can afford to mess around a bit. Fun stuff sometimes. But, yeah... I could tell stories.

So what is the benefit, outside of cutting a jack-seat?

WAAAAYYY less banging/mushrooming, or incurring an impossible set-back situation from being silly enough to make the face-cut first.

It's good for smaller trees, when there's not room to pound wedges in behind the backcut. cut back cut, set wedges, cut face and then pound it over.

Dude, I've seriously done it with no rope in huge cottonwoods that were back-leaning into the house. Back cut first... blunt-wedges as soon as there is possibly a hair or room... tap, tap, cut, cut, repeat... stressfull stuff... tap, tap, nibble, nibble... staying hard-up on yer chain with the wedges. A guy could say that it's no fun, but the upside is that you incurred ZERO extra set-back, and you didn't have to shinny up there like a retarded monkey. Climbing sucks! Tap, tap, nibble, tickle. Leave yer spurs in the stinkin truck. A guy wants a ton of wedges in the back to prevent splitting, and to make the double-up easier.

only when bore cutting small stems aloft.... heavy front leaners... set the back cut first, tiny little notch second, because that's all there is room for, then release the strap....

DUDE! You gotta get on this! An experimental man like yerself! Come on, now!!! I'da thought that youd'a had this figured by now. Fun stuff, I tell ye!

Ha! Pitfalls, you say???

Yyyyeeeeaaaahhh... Coupla caveats: 1) DON'T get overzealous on yer bangin'. (barberchair no face-cut ) Orrrr... (bar-pinch on face-cut ) 2) Never/seldom do on gusty days... tree can go with no face-cut. 3) One should make one's face-cut like an EXTREMELY trepidatious fellow. It is EXTREMELY EASY (Page: I too am just a tree-service guy.) to cut off yer far corner when making the face-cut. Yes, my good man... I could tell you stories. But let not an educational thread in the House degenerate into mere storytelling!

Dang, how'd you do that Butch???... I could never figure out the multi-quote thing.

 

[FireFighterZero]

I dont know what any of that means.....but I am sure glad to read it Jed.

 

[Jed]

Yer a good man!!!!!!!!!

 

[pantheraba]

I dont know what any of that means.....but I am sure glad to read it Jed.

That's just funny! And I totally understand what YOU just said! Even if don't understand it sometimes, I do recognize wisdom when I see it.

 

[SeanKroll]

I wonder if the concern over set-back of a tree is a concern, really. I've chased in some many trees, different ways. Might be bore-cut through the middle of the hinge, with two more bore-cuts from the back for a triple-stacker, or cut part of the width of the back-cut and wedge it, cut more of the width and wedge it. Most often, its just keeping the wedges tight behind the saw. Some people use a wedge-pounder while they cut. Personally, I gain information for cutting from the wedging.

Have lots of people lost ground on a tree? Sure. People do all sorts of silly stuff.

I've had one sit back kinda suddenly when we shoulda wedged sooner. I don't know what the error was...human error, see the last paragraph. I just bored-in from the back after shaving off the bark, creating a space for a wedge, and set and drove a wedge until there was room for more wedge tips on the sides. Drove them all, thinking of John Henry, and tipped it over, like wedges and hinges do. No less than a 130', probably a good bit taller. In a root-disease patch at Kopachuck SP.



Jed, I have suggested the same method to set the pull rope so you know you're set-up for success, and wedging to learn, never compromising your strong, healthy hinge.

 

[stig]

Jed, back in the old days, the pre throwline and Bigshot days, a fellow could get in a lot of hurt by overestimating his wedging ability.
Today if we find out we can't beat the tree over, we just shoot a line into it.
No need for wasting time pre setting one IMO.

Back in them days I once had two loggers who had gotten too optimistic about wedging a tree away from a structure ask me if I would climb up and set a line in it.

I think y'all can guess what I told them.

 

[pantheraba]

Loggers!!!!

 

[Jed]

Wow... Yeah... Imagine the wind coming up while poor Stig's half way up a cut-up tree to set a rope.... I can't believer they asked you to do that. Man, guys are too much sometimes.

Sean: Yeaaahhh... Fer some stupid reason I never got into the fancier stuff... cutting the guts out, and boring under the back to get another wedge in. No wait! I did it once at Ste. Michelle Winery... worked a charm that time! Man, I gotta remembert that.

 

[SeanKroll]

As much as I love a couple wedges, the rope was the real tool, with the Maasdam continuous rope-puller to yard ivy off of trees. I had some considerable load via the handle, and would then sometimes get the ivy to give, with dynamically bouncing on the rope, giving it the oomph it needed. I think a wedge would have been terrible in this application.

hahaha

 

[theTreeSpyder]

Mostly, wedge for felling became a safety chock for me>>rope leverage the workhorse.
But also too: olds-cool lesson NOT to be lost in march forward (as many things are)>> once tree committed to stop adding force as wedge naturally does.
>>in imagery of over exercise hinge stronger with rope/wedge faux load until first flexing/committed
>>but then remove the faux load for the race>> as now in this phase hinge strength is set and any added loading is against that strength, not help form it.
.
Pull to target, across thin axis of hinge, to force thinnest axis as strong as can
>>adjust pattern of fibers forced in that field as built in ballast against side lean w/tapered hinge
i think pulls/pushes against side lean remove those inputs from forward to target input to run thru tapered hinge as a leveraged multiplier against side lean.
>>also, just as relieve forces making hinge stronger when starts moving to have less loaded hinge in ratio to if no rope/wedge
>>against side force pull are doing opposite, are babying hinge during it's 'forging' then when tree commits the anti-side-load ballast is gone and thus can impact back relieved side force.
.
Tapered Hinge is welded in; functioning during hinge's 'tour of duty' until tearoff
side pull against side lean is visitor, before tour starts>>but same rules as for tapered etc.
>> have to gain a lot, that will persist into tour of duty ; to make a difference!
>>unless pre-fall can connive CoG more toward target before free fall starts, i don't think this would play out like as planned.
.
Any close, is a sudden pivotal change to system under these loads.
Dutchmans accidentally or purposefully play on this prey/capitalize on this function, that induces speed squared into equation AND impact of change under massive leveraged load multiplIERS.
>>enough force to overload capacity the tree itself as a container of said forces.