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Let's fight about ropes vs wedges.

Burnham

Woods walker
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
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17,533
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Western Oregon
From Sean's post forward...everyone earns a :lol:.

Spyder, with all respect garnered from our many years here as shared compatriots...again you challenge us native English speakers to accomplish clear understanding :).

Be that as it may...please carry on. I generally do figure out your most astute points, if I give it enough reads. Though I will admit to swearing at you under my breath from time to time :P.
 

murphy4trees

TreeHouser
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Messages
1,686
Location
Philadelphia PA suburbs
This is why I vote ropes:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Z1wGVEYq2q4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

SeanKroll

Treehouser
Joined
Oct 13, 2016
Messages
7,188
Location
Olympia, WA
I skipped to the chase.

Seemed like he set up a good cut and banged it over pretty well. Not pro, but well. He's a probably not a pro. Give him a break.

A pro would bang that over quickly BTW.

Throwlines in the woods are a PITA, IME.

He doesn't need to cut his rope out from under his tree, nor disassemble his rope-puller (the simplest, cheapest, lightest, fastest way to pull a rope with progress capture and MA).
 

stig

Patron saint of bore-cutters
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
17,615
Location
Denmark
Just from the way he started his facecut one can tell, he is not a pro.

So anything he has to say is of no value whatsoever.

I've said this before: " Either the tree has head lean or not, setting both wedges and a backstrap is a waste of time ".

What was your point in posting this shit, Daniel?

Apart of course from annoying the hell out of me and Burnham.
 

Graeme McMahon

Treehouser
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
58
To me it seems the experience needed to decide wedge, rope or both is the issue. Knowing how to use them is another matter.
 

theTreeSpyder

TreeHouser
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
410
To me, wedges are cheaper, lighter,more compact, but less usable range; and sawyer doing forcing as well as running saw.
Tree truck on site, loaded with ropes, generally go with rope, wedge in kerf as backup +added pressure if needed especially in soft or backlean.
.
Wedge has a complication that rope doesn't tho.
>>As bring hinge back further to easier fall/moving CoG forward
>>also works to reduce wedge leverage
So paint into corner of choices of wedge leverage vs. Natural fall leverage, mapping to same compressed part of hinge as pivot
In contrast, can bring hinge back further, and add rope at same leverage if not more angle/distance to hinge pivot.
.
i think direction of added pressure saw or rope; should be to target, not against sidelean.
Should force hinge stronger, and stop rope pull, like wedge Naturally stops pushing on movement/when she commits.
i like thinking of added forces as added weight like tree is heavier, so gets fatter hinge in response, then remove fake weight of rope/wedge force when 'births' /is live with movement.
>>then use stronger hinge to steer available thru whole ride, not just start!.
NOT to TEMPORARILY offset sideLean for sideLean to IMPACT back when tree moves(and offsetting sidelean force of wedge or rope stops), so rope/wedge against sidelean uses part of added force to 'baby' hinge weaker, not stronger in my mind 2 compounding ways:
>>taking force away from forward pull that could force stronger hinge for whole ride with better buillt in ballast
>>taking some sideLean away, that rebounds back in HARD when wedge/rope forces stop that were temporarily ballast against sideLean..
.
Climber's more attuned to using rope in tree for trix; extends that mental toolset to ground it seems.
>>conversely in tree have used semi trailer tire changing spoon as lever to slip thin spoon into backcut kerf for for rear lift with tempered steel bar, often as being pulled also with rope.
.
i do prefer ropes in a more over the top, or around the side in tree etc. bends on target pull,
>>as more of a cradling, rotating force input since we are trying to get rotational movement on hinge as output, rather than just Running Bowline around target type strategy of more of a just linear 'sharper angle' pull input not braced cradle roll effect try to sponsor.
.
Especially in a top that can give ANY flex / displacement:
>>becomes more of a braced, rather than a sharp flex >> which can lead to placing more confidently higher up and harder pull input
>>can also favorably effect Center of Gravity more forward with more confidence
>>spring loads pressure to tree elasticity as well as rope to force stronger hinge many times(timing of hinge movement in here some how tho).
.
i break leans into 2 parts: head lean and stick lever of trunk head sits on.
>>then how those line up across thinnest part of hinge as path of least resistance
>>assuming forward lean, or first job is to roll it forward and make it so.
From there can have forward forces across thin part of hinge and side forces across long part of hinge.
>>Tapered Hinge as side ballast against side forces to neutralize, 'simply' allow remaining forward forces to take her home to target.
Those are the 2 dimensions of pull across 2 dim hinge; 3rd dimension is downward compression from inline forces down trunk.
>>but last 3rd dim are neutral/balanced UNLEVERAGED forces bank of load weight, until that weight pulled off balance into fall as part of the LEVERAGED lean as she falls.
 

Marc-Antoine

TreeHouser
Joined
Apr 17, 2011
Messages
1,639
Location
France
He did well enough to me. Pro or not, I can't tell, but at least he knows how to run his chainsaw. Nice hinge.
I see two problems though:
- banging the wedges with a tiny hatchet and hoping that would be enough
- cutting a too deep notch which gives a even harder time to push the tree over with the wedges.

Thinking of this backstrap, perhaps it may not be intended as a backstrap by itself (very thick backstrap), but as a way to manage the poor access at the trunk. What tells me that is it looks somewhat parent-like with a quarter cut. Just add a bore cut first and you get it.
 

CurSedVoyce

California Hillbilly
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
33,426
Location
Near Yosemite in CA USA
He was successful. Learned a lesson as he worked for his goal. Most of us here has had a tree we hard to beat the piss out of some wedges to get over. Little more back weight than estimated....maybe a tad more. I had a large pine about wear out two of us taking turns at. Quick drop and walk.... Ha!
Oh well..... still went right to the lay......
Can't always rope every tree nor can you wedge them all over. I use both mostly. Best to have redundancy in case something goes amuck.
 

Attachments

squisher

THE CALM ONE!!!!
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
23,796
Location
Vernon, B.C.
Both for the win. If a tree doesn't need a rope then wedges are clearly more efficient. If a tree does need a pull then wedges are clearly cheap added insurance. Sometimes warranted and sometimes not. Endless variations to the theme.
 

frans

TreeHouser
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
695
How about not fight, but explore where one works and the other does not?
 

Tree09

Treehouser
Joined
Feb 28, 2017
Messages
4,511
Location
Peoria il
Trees on the ground, but even i could do better than that. Homeowner obviously. And completely irrelevant, not only because he's not a pro, but because limiting yourself toolwise is dumb. A carpenter uses at least 5 different types of squares, and they all have their place and purpose.
 

Burnham

Woods walker
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
17,533
Location
Western Oregon
How about not fight, but explore where one works and the other does not?
Ok...wedges work unless there is too much back lean to drive the tree over top of COG. Ropes are necessary with more back lean than that, but will work with less back lean too.

Simple.
:)
 

Mellow

Treehouser
Joined
Oct 13, 2017
Messages
1,703
Location
Sunshine State
I see them as two types of levers. The rope set high in the tree has a larger lever arm(is that the right terminology?) than the wedge, therefore producing more force per effort.

Aaaaand, I think that's what Burnham just said but in different words...
 

Jonny

Treehouser
Joined
Sep 29, 2018
Messages
1,246
Location
Buffalo, NY
I'm probably gonna get called a hack or amateur for this, but I use wedges to keep from pinching my bar and that's it.
 

Stumpshot

General Purpose
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
1,495
Location
Kansas City
A real pro doesn't use a hammer or felling ax to drive wedges... he just gives 'em a Willie slap and the tree concedes defeat and just keels over...
That and Jerry's 090 makes it bow before its master...
 

Mellow

Treehouser
Joined
Oct 13, 2017
Messages
1,703
Location
Sunshine State
Wow! I totally misinterpreted the "Willie slap" comment. I thought it had something to do with Butch's wrestling video.
 

SeanKroll

Treehouser
Joined
Oct 13, 2016
Messages
7,188
Location
Olympia, WA
I made a joke about Willie slapping a wedge to drive over a monster, maybe the high-stumped felling from spurs. He was actually checking it, or snugging it up as it went over from a pull rope or gravity, IIRC.
 
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