How Big A Swing Are You Willing To Take Before Saying "No!"?

[lxskllr]

Per the title. It's still gonna be awhile, but I've started looking at the standing dead white pines on my office job. The two that are especially concerning are >100'. One has a reasonable tie in fairly close, though very high to get a line set. The other tree has a tie in fairly distant and very high. How far are you willing to swing into a stem if things go pear shaped in the tree you're working, and you have to cut loose?

I'm still weighing options, with the option of simply not doing it making a strong showing. Taking them from the bottom, the one with a distant tie in *will* get hung up and damage not very terrific trees, particularly an ugly maple, but it's there. and I'd prefer not damaging it. The other one /may/ be able to felled in one shot, but perhaps not by me. I'd have to be very accurate to not hit a couple young, but nice trees. There's still plenty of time before I need to make a decision. I'm just figuring out what decision I'll make.

edit:
I took a couple pics yesterday, but they don't say much I don't think.

The "good" tree...



The bad one...

 

[BeerGeek]

John, try and see if you can set tie-ins in adjacent trees, then spike up the zombies using the live trees with your climb line as a better backup.

 

[lxskllr]

That was kinda the question. The good tree has a close tie in but very high, the other not so much. If I cut free of the bad tree, it would mean a big swing. There's also the option of multiple tie ins, but I don't think I like that. Too much stuff strung around for wood to hit, and it could make a bad day. I've got an apta coming, so I think I can set a high tie in, but that remains to be seen. Both these trees are long dead. Bark's gone. That's why I'm leery of relying on them.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

High line across 2 good trees. Or two climb linesin two good trees. Swing out into air if need be.

 

[SeanKroll]

If you fall and pendulum 30' and hit the tree, it's said to be like falling 30' and hitting a tree (well actually, it's from rock climbing).

Out of your pay grade and out of your lane.

Would you dismantle trees that size if stability was no issue?

 

[No_Bivy]

the swing aint the issue....its is the blunt trauma at the end.

other options

 

[lxskllr]

Would you dismantle trees that size if stability was no issue?

A healthy tree? Yea, I'd do that. It would be out of my comfort zone for height, but everything's out of the comfort zone til you do it. You can count on a healthy tree to behave properly, so you just have to make sure you do your job right.

 

[gf beranek]

Having a climbline set in a live tree to work-out a dead one is always a good plan. But it doesn't come without a few caveats.

A big one is to not draw up too tight on the climbline, unless it is actually supporting your weight. Otherwise it would be bearing a side-pull on the tree (top) that was never on it before.

Just a reminder. Having a double tie in can help reduce side-pull effect, but unless the angle are directly opposed the method can not always eliminate side pull altogether.

Angle-dangle stuff. matters a lot when working out dead trees. Be smooth

 

[lxskllr]

High line across 2 good trees. Or two climb linesin two good trees. Swing out into air if need be.

That's an interesting idea. So 'no touch' on the target tree? I'll have to take a look, and see if something like that can be setup. That's definitely "out of my lane" as Sean puts it, but it's something I can practice elsewhere as proof of concept.

 

[Tree09]

Yup, if need be your second line can even be to the ground. But yeah you have to know what you are doing pretty well before doing that on dead or uprooted/split off damage. Personally I'm increasingly hesitant on what risks i want to take on. Just like rock climbing, mountaineering, and diving you have to accept a risk level that you are comfortable and knowing enough to accept, and never go past that. You need to step back on occasion and recheck your risk assessments. Maybe you climb and cut only stuff you can free fall and don't need to rig. Maybe you don't climb dead trees, or maybe you are the top of the talent and skill pool and do the stuff no one else can.

There's dudes that climb crispy dead stuff all the time, our own @CurSedVoyce and @Jed are a few that do stuff that on the reg, not to mention the others including the guys who wrote the book and invented the tools. My hats off to them, I'm not that good so i don't go too far past my abilities. That's not a bad thing, it's just the experience that i don't have yet. It's the same thing at work, only a few know to to weld really well, even fewer of them can do the confined space work, or the high work, or the advanced rigging, etc. It's not a bad thing to understand that you may have limitations as it comes to professions like these. I know i do lol

 

[CurSedVoyce]

That's an interesting idea. So 'no touch' on the target tree? I'll have to take a look, and see if something like that can be setup. That's definitely "out of my lane" as Sean puts it, but it's something I can practice elsewhere as proof of concept.

You touch the target tree. You lanyard yourself to it with a break away set up. Gaff into it for stability. Just your life is hanging on good tie ins else where.

 

[SeanKroll]

You touch the target tree. You lanyard yourself to it with a break away set up. Gaff into it for stability. Just your life is hanging on good tie ins else where.

This is a good idea, which I used recently.


Test your breakaway set-up with several break-tests to dial in your zip-tie needs or other means of breakaway.




A ground-worker can 'belay' your SRT tail to prevent you from hitting the anchor tree. Easy work, sitting in a chair in the safe area.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Here is Gerry with two tie ins

 

[pantheraba]

I did this ivy-covered oak about 10 years ago...poor quality video (pre-GoPro) but the idea is there. I got my height and support from a nearby tall tree. I used a highline for work positioning...to get me over to the target tree. It is kind of involved setting it up but it worked out OK.

 

[Mick!]

Didn’t read through it all, but my advice is, if a couple of little trees have to get it to bring it down safely, then they get it or you walk away.
Property, and infrastructure is worth taking a little more risk on, but not a couple of small plants.

 

[gf beranek]

Spider man. Did good on that one, Gary.

 

[Altissimus]

Had good results a few times with skylines between two trustworty Trees , some extra rope and set up time (always been worth it) ... My rig is usually a block on top , can move it when needed

 

[treesmith]

Can you fold it and drop it in place?

 

[SkwerI]

I've never used a skyline between two live trees to climb a dead tree. I've tied into a single live tree to climb a dead tree, but the technique and mindset is different than your typical tree climbing.

Typically we work with what we call a 'work support' climbing system. Our weight is constantly supported by our lifeline and we maneuver around shortening or lengthening our rope as needed to keep us in position. When climbing a compromised tree with our lifeline in another tree, we have to switch our mindset to that of a 'fall arrest' system. We are not using our lifeline to position or support our weight. Instead we are using it as a backup safety net to catch us should the target tree fail beneath us. Climb the compromised tree using smooth, gentle movements and keep your weight centered over the trunk as much as possible. Minimize side loads or any shock loading as much as possible. Use your lanyard (or two) for work positioning in the tree and always mind your lifeline, keeping minimal slack so as to reduce your fall should something go bad.

That's about all I got to add to this topic.

 

[lxskllr]

Can you fold it and drop it in place?

What do you mean by "fold it"?

 

[BlackSmith]

 

[treesmith]

What do you mean by "fold it"?

Here’s one I did about six years ago. I’ve done it three times I think.

 

[lxskllr]

That's pretty cool. I'll have to take a good look at the setup. That might be particularly viable on the "bad" tree.

 

[SkwerI]

That looks dangerous as hell! Where were you standing when that thing came down? Because it popped and dropped quick!

 

[stig]

Brian, you hold both the folding top and the tree on snap cuts.
Then winch the standing tree over.
Keeps you completely out of the danger zone.