Dead limbs?
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CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Sometimes i will leave some dead to filter sun in the canopy if the canopy has a hole from a break out. Had one ive done in stages that came back better for it. Now granted, we also treated with mulch, super thrive and fish emulsion. Took some lawn back away from the Rc. But had we taken more dead out of it, more likely would have had some sun scald.
I will also leave a little bit of dead twigs here and there in inconspicuous places in the crown for nesting birds and squirrels.
I will also leave a little bit of dead twigs here and there in inconspicuous places in the crown for nesting birds and squirrels.
Mick!
TreeHouser
A guy on AT opined (and I agree) that almost every time he dead woods deodar cedars, he goes back to remove damaged limbs after a year or so.
The removal of the inner deadwood causes the branches to partially rotate/twist in the wind and fail.
I hadn’t seen the connection till he mentioned it, but I think he’s right.
The removal of the inner deadwood causes the branches to partially rotate/twist in the wind and fail.
I hadn’t seen the connection till he mentioned it, but I think he’s right.
Its a very interesting question.
One arborist I know says taking all the dead out of a hemlock struggling with adelgid will really benefit the tree and it will come back strongly in conjunction with spraying. With that in mind, I have thoroughly dead wooded the big hemlock in my back yard. This tree has taken some storm damage over the years despite being well trimmed and cared for, always due to heavy wet snows. As I take deadwood out of it, I'm thinking now there will be less for the snow to stick to and less dead to block light to the live limbs (both being small incremental improvements) and less deadwood material for a squirrel to make a nest next season ( I wasn't happy about the damage done nest building this season as a good amount of live growth was ripped off for nest material).
In the classic Pironne text on trees, I believe he advocated leaving a dead limb on top of a tree for the sake of a bird perch.
Isn't conventional thinking that removing deadwood removes an entity that can foster insects or disease that could harm living parts of the tree?
Google provided this thoughtful and deep article by a climbing arborist (in the Detroit area, maybe @kevin bingham knows him) Does removing dead wood actually help trees? — Tree First - https://www.treefirst.org/removing-deadwood
One arborist I know says taking all the dead out of a hemlock struggling with adelgid will really benefit the tree and it will come back strongly in conjunction with spraying. With that in mind, I have thoroughly dead wooded the big hemlock in my back yard. This tree has taken some storm damage over the years despite being well trimmed and cared for, always due to heavy wet snows. As I take deadwood out of it, I'm thinking now there will be less for the snow to stick to and less dead to block light to the live limbs (both being small incremental improvements) and less deadwood material for a squirrel to make a nest next season ( I wasn't happy about the damage done nest building this season as a good amount of live growth was ripped off for nest material).
In the classic Pironne text on trees, I believe he advocated leaving a dead limb on top of a tree for the sake of a bird perch.
Isn't conventional thinking that removing deadwood removes an entity that can foster insects or disease that could harm living parts of the tree?
Google provided this thoughtful and deep article by a climbing arborist (in the Detroit area, maybe @kevin bingham knows him) Does removing dead wood actually help trees? — Tree First - https://www.treefirst.org/removing-deadwood
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I'm a bit conflicted, obviously dead limbs are part of the whole tree system...and yet lots of trees I have deadwooded have thrived afterwards.
The ones I wonder most about are the conifers, removed truckloads of deadwood from the interiors, left some where I think they might be important for the structure under wind load....so far no major failures now 4-5 years later...Atlantic cedar, cupressus mainly.
The ones I wonder most about are the conifers, removed truckloads of deadwood from the interiors, left some where I think they might be important for the structure under wind load....so far no major failures now 4-5 years later...Atlantic cedar, cupressus mainly.
flushcut
TreeHouser
I am in the same boat as Stig and Mick.
I did a job last year 15 locusts to dead wood and canopy raise for a lake view. Almost immediately after the job the trees shed some limbs due to wind but not major wind either. Maybe the dead, there was a lot of it, helped in buffering the wind load.
I did a job last year 15 locusts to dead wood and canopy raise for a lake view. Almost immediately after the job the trees shed some limbs due to wind but not major wind either. Maybe the dead, there was a lot of it, helped in buffering the wind load.
I figure trees can take care of themselves. They spent millions of years without humans and did just fine. If having attached dead wood was bad for them, they'd have evolved to drop it quickly. Probably not a popular opinion on an arborist's site :^D
My thought is... what a loaded way to phrase those questions.
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- #10
MY initial thought to your statement (query?) is... so what, contribute ooor don’t contribute.
its all a matter if you have anything positive to contribute to the forum.
I find your statement negative simply because you wrote a response which does not in any way contribute.
My post, for what it is worth to you, is/was an honest post.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Frans, the other thing that comes to mind is compartmentalization. Seems to happen faster/more efficient, less energy from the tree, when removed. Rather than making the tree essentially pinch it off and shed it. Less chance of a hollow forming by my observations in my local species. Someone is welcome to correct my thinking that is more educated in the matter.
Mick!
TreeHouser
My experience of oak deadwooding is wholly positive for the tree, by and large it seems to be a benefit, causing regrowth and aesthetic improvement.
Like many issues in this industry it’s species dependent.
Like many issues in this industry it’s species dependent.
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It is a complex subject in which answers will be dependent on the specificity of the situation in question.
"Dead wood is the life of the forest" Is a well known and accepted phrase. Being a natural component of the ecosystem, it is utilized in many ways that are beneficial to trees collectively and individually.
Unfortunately, that does not adequately address closer scrutiny of a more focused nature. How much dead wood are we talking about? Dead wood produced from what cause? What is the tree age and species being addressed.
As with most things tree-related, a relevant answer will be dependent on the many specifics involved. Is water good for trees? Yes of course it is, but too much will kill a tree, so even that simple question deserves qualification.
"Dead wood is the life of the forest" Is a well known and accepted phrase. Being a natural component of the ecosystem, it is utilized in many ways that are beneficial to trees collectively and individually.
Unfortunately, that does not adequately address closer scrutiny of a more focused nature. How much dead wood are we talking about? Dead wood produced from what cause? What is the tree age and species being addressed.
As with most things tree-related, a relevant answer will be dependent on the many specifics involved. Is water good for trees? Yes of course it is, but too much will kill a tree, so even that simple question deserves qualification.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #16
The definition of an arborist means to care for an individual tree, while a forester cares for forest stands
it seems to me that the general public desires a tree be overpruned to ‘clean it up‘ or to ‘make it healthy’ by removing dead wood.
that sentiment is great for my business, but personally I don’t think it is ‘good’ for the tree to remove all deadwood. Some of my clients have us remove pencil size deadwood in their large trees.
Medical doctors have an oath called the Hippocratic oath where they swear to uphold ethical standards or to ‘first do no harm’.
We arborists have no such oath, although the ISA does sorta have one.
Don Blair wrote an interesting one but I don’t have it here at hand
it seems to me that the general public desires a tree be overpruned to ‘clean it up‘ or to ‘make it healthy’ by removing dead wood.
that sentiment is great for my business, but personally I don’t think it is ‘good’ for the tree to remove all deadwood. Some of my clients have us remove pencil size deadwood in their large trees.
Medical doctors have an oath called the Hippocratic oath where they swear to uphold ethical standards or to ‘first do no harm’.
We arborists have no such oath, although the ISA does sorta have one.
Don Blair wrote an interesting one but I don’t have it here at hand
Mick!
TreeHouser
I’m not working for trees, I’m working for people.
Just come back from looking at a job, a maple and a locust that I topped 3 years ago to be redone, only this time lower.
No arguments, just do it.
Fine by me.
Just come back from looking at a job, a maple and a locust that I topped 3 years ago to be redone, only this time lower.
No arguments, just do it.
Fine by me.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
I tell people that their tree isn't dirty.
Then explore what they are after.
When they say want a simple answer, I tell them it's not a black-and-white situation, is brown-and-green.
I thought I read, forever ago, that blue spruce are more snow-load resistant or something when intact, not deadwooded. No support available for this idea.
Then explore what they are after.
When they say want a simple answer, I tell them it's not a black-and-white situation, is brown-and-green.
I thought I read, forever ago, that blue spruce are more snow-load resistant or something when intact, not deadwooded. No support available for this idea.
biggun
Monkey for Hire
I think if it is safety pruning in heavy foot fall areas we deadwood. Dependent on species but often I will leave deadwood if it is acting as a natural brace of support to other limbs. Same as crossing branches, removing a natural brace can lead to additional branch failure. Often Cedar and Beech.
Mick, I also work for people but I care for trees. After a lifetime of doing so, trees have earned my respect. They are marvelous organisms and I will always advocate for their well being.
When pushed by circumstances, I will cut way more than is good for them if it means they get to live. A live tree has a chance.
Dead wood removal in young trees seems to be the most beneficial. Whether in the form of natural senescence, disease, or mechanical injury, cutting it out will just let the tree get on with growing.
Mature trees, especially those that have not been worked on for decades, are much different. Because trees grow and develop in direct response to their circumstances, dead wood that has been there a long time can be surrounded by growth that was influenced by its presence. As several people have already pointed out, removing dead wood from those trees can have strongly negative health effects.
When pushed by circumstances, I will cut way more than is good for them if it means they get to live. A live tree has a chance.
Dead wood removal in young trees seems to be the most beneficial. Whether in the form of natural senescence, disease, or mechanical injury, cutting it out will just let the tree get on with growing.
Mature trees, especially those that have not been worked on for decades, are much different. Because trees grow and develop in direct response to their circumstances, dead wood that has been there a long time can be surrounded by growth that was influenced by its presence. As several people have already pointed out, removing dead wood from those trees can have strongly negative health effects.
gf beranek
Old Schooler
The Treehouse, 6 miles north of Leggett, on Hwy 101, is beautiful today. Back in 03 we took a ton (maybe more) of deadwood out of it. It's full, fluffy and green, and it looks so much better than it did full of deadwood.
There were a few cuts made in the tree that I would have left. But with 9 climbers going at it, all at once, I couldn't monitor every cut they made. It was good.
There were a few cuts made in the tree that I would have left. But with 9 climbers going at it, all at once, I couldn't monitor every cut they made. It was good.
SeanKroll
Treehouser
All in one tree? Holy carp!!!!
gf beranek
Old Schooler
That was the 'Treehouse Project'. The largest redwood tree on Hwy 101. Wes Burns and I climbed the tree (89?) and measured it's height and volume @ 250' tall, by 240,000 bf. Not tall, but big around.
