Another training/recert with D. Douglas Dent

[Newfie]

Who are you kidding- You'll never grow up.

That's probably true. I'm OK with that.

 

[wiley_p]

Absolutely, Jay. You make an great point regarding a gap at the hinge. And recall that trick I described a while back, that I learned from one of my hazard tree contract fallers? He bored a vertical slot right at the base of the front of the hinge to allow the hinge to flex more...same idea.

Swizwill, Burn. It also can be used to "post" a tree If the same type of bore is done horizontally and lower down the stump.

 

[TREECYCLE]

Dougie D

quote(that I really only looked smart in comparison to the bulk of the general population of tree guys because only 3 out of 10 understand the basic physics of timber falling, how hinges work, etc., etc. ) unquote

Its a good thing you do not work for a tree service because if you ever put a snag like that 30 degrees off the face you might have to go back to the woods to practice.
If I put a face in a snag and saw that the wood was punk I sure as hell would not keep my hinge even. Why not taper it, or at the least go more than a 1/3 on the face?

Your tree did not go to the lay, and you passed? I would love to see who did not

 

[boboak]

Hi-ya Bob! You ever run across Dent in your travels as a faller?

Gary

No, not to talk to. Saw him in crowds a couple of times but there were so many people around him you couldn't get close.

 

[sotc]

quote(that I really only looked smart in comparison to the bulk of the general population of tree guys because only 3 out of 10 understand the basic physics of timber falling, how hinges work, etc., etc. ) unquote

Its a good thing you do not work for a tree service because if you ever put a snag like that 30 degrees off the face you might have to go back to the woods to practice.
If I put a face in a snag and saw that the wood was punk I sure as hell would not keep my hinge even. Why not taper it, or at the least go more than a 1/3 on the face?

Your tree did not go to the lay, and you passed? I would love to see who did not

Punky is punky, taper won't help in that scenario. Once the hinges strength is compromised the only thing that may help is a support line and that may just cause the top to break and still lose the trunk to the lean

 

[Stumper]

Cycle, You seem to have missed the important point that the tree did what Burnham predicted it would do---indicating that his knowledge of tree felling is good. He also has been certified by Dent before, is part of the USFS team of climbing instructors and is a f***ing internet expert of long and esteemed standing.

 

[Newfie]

quote(that I really only looked smart in comparison to the bulk of the general population of tree guys because only 3 out of 10 understand the basic physics of timber falling, how hinges work, etc., etc. ) unquote

Its a good thing you do not work for a tree service because if you ever put a snag like that 30 degrees off the face you might have to go back to the woods to practice.
If I put a face in a snag and saw that the wood was punk I sure as hell would not keep my hinge even. Why not taper it, or at the least go more than a 1/3 on the face?

Your tree did not go to the lay, and you passed? I would love to see who did not

Another tool with an empty profile and without a clue.

 

[brendonv]

quote(that I really only looked smart in comparison to the bulk of the general population of tree guys because only 3 out of 10 understand the basic physics of timber falling, how hinges work, etc., etc. ) unquote

Its a good thing you do not work for a tree service because if you ever put a snag like that 30 degrees off the face you might have to go back to the woods to practice.
If I put a face in a snag and saw that the wood was punk I sure as hell would not keep my hinge even. Why not taper it, or at the least go more than a 1/3 on the face?

Your tree did not go to the lay, and you passed? I would love to see who did not

Man, I had to look up at the browser the make sure I wasn't at treefuzz. Everyone is perfect there, like you.

You've obviously have never spent any time reading anymore of Burnham's post than the one you've seen in this thread. If I could have any felling teacher, it would be Burnham or Mr. B. I've learned tons from his posts, and being a young'n I appreciate that.

Besides, he mentioned what was going to happen before it did. What's better than that?

 

[woodworkingboy]

You mean that all this time, Burnham has been pulling the wool over our eyes? Isn't he a crafty son of a gun....to the lay.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Another tool with an empty profile and without a clue.

No shit. :roll:

 

[Burnham]

quote(that I really only looked smart in comparison to the bulk of the general population of tree guys because only 3 out of 10 understand the basic physics of timber falling, how hinges work, etc., etc. ) unquote

Its a good thing you do not work for a tree service because if you ever put a snag like that 30 degrees off the face you might have to go back to the woods to practice.
If I put a face in a snag and saw that the wood was punk I sure as hell would not keep my hinge even. Why not taper it, or at the least go more than a 1/3 on the face?

Your tree did not go to the lay, and you passed? I would love to see who did not

:roll:
Read my description of the tree, the surroundings and attendant hazards, why I faced and back cut it the way I did...can you not understand my reasoning?

Doing as you suggest on a snag as soft as this one would almost certainly have caused it to fail during placement of a deeper face. I had no functional hinge, none, as I said. A tapered hinge that is as badly rotten as this works not one whit better than a straight one.

I passed because the tree did go exactly where I predicted it would. Where I placed the psuedo face and where the non-functional hinge was oriented did not aim at the lay...I did this on purpose and for very good reasons. I already explained what they were.

It's relatively easy to explain what happened and why after the action...being able to accurately call the shot beforehand and explain why such and such is going to happen is why Dent considers me competent.

 

[SkwerI]

You can't fool all the people all the time, B.

 

[Burnham]

You can't fool all the people all the time, B.

I have been exposed!

Wait...that's not a pretty mental picture.

 

[Burnham]

Swizwill, Burn. It also can be used to "post" a tree If the same type of bore is done horizontally and lower down the stump.

Yup, Dave, I sure do recall you posting about this when you mentioned the sidehill cut technique. I sure hope you'll be at the Wraptor gig so you can draw me picture of that one.

Any luck with contacting Dent?

 

[wiley_p]

I will. Not yet, just got email off today. Spent as lot of today researching training opportunities with little headway. I never got a good head of steam worked up enough to call.

 

[Burnham]

Well, like I told you earlier, he seemed receptive. If nothing else, y'all can have a laugh recalling the old days .

 

[wiley_p]

I ain't real clear, but I don't remember laughing when he was around.

 

[Burnham]

Yeah, well, we've touched on this subject before...he has mellowed, but he's still the most arrogant, opiniated, and profane man I ever met. Just not as much as he used to be .

But if he knows you know your stuff, has seen you perform well repeatedly, then he's going to treat you fine. You'd be getting along with him smooth as silk if you'd kept certifying under him, 'cause you obviously have the chops he's looking for, Dave.

Don't be shy, give him a holler.

 

[squisher]

Burnham you can come fall trees on my residential tree crew any day of the year. And that's cutting with one youngster me, who was damn near born with a chainsaw in my hands, and with my uncle, 40+year vet of the bush and cert'd faller ever since a cert'd faller existed up here.

I always find your posts/threads on cutting very informative and thought provoking. And have always appreciated your thoughtful answers to any questions/comments put forward. Thanks.

Don't let the riffraff get to ya, eventhough I know you never would.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Yeah, well, we've touched on this subject before...he has mellowed, but he's still the most arrogant, opiniated, and profane man I ever met. Just not as much as he used to be .

An old saying in my neck of the woods, "A hard teacher, is a good teacher".

 

[MasterBlaster]

There's no need to be profane. All the rest is acceptable but that.

I'd like to meet the 'lil fella.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Sometimes you can't isolate different parts of people's personalities, just have to take the good with the bad, if there is something to be gained. I take it that this is what Burnham implies.

 

[TREECYCLE]

Dougie D

Please excuse my prior, tactless post. I did not mean offense or direct offense at anybody who is too sensitive to have a conversation about proper directional falling.

Just for conversation though, if decay and punk is suspected, and then confirmed with a rotten face. -without line the favor of the tree runs the show-.

Before I annoy everybody , and people call me the punk ( not the tree kind). And for the sake of holding to a higher standard ( Douglas Dent) who I always thought was Mr A-1 on Safety. And because you ruled out leaving a fat tapered hinge because of the rot, Would a small face in the direction of the snag's natural lean, followed by a back- cut parallel to that have been in order?
Predicting that the tree was not going to follow your face, but continuing with a back-cut that was intended for a different direction is not right.

Snags kill a lot of fallers and through training and threads like yours a better approach is all that it takes. You were obviously there and I was not and above all I think your pictures and thread are great and very informative.

 

[woodworkingboy]

Yep, we are all too damn sensitive here, nothing but a bunch of "girliemen", to coin a phrase.

 

[MasterBlaster]

It's all good!