Analysis of a near miss on a tree removal

Robert P

Robert P

TreeHouser
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Jul 11, 2014
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291
Guy taking down a beech tree, on the section he takes off at about 1:54, looks to me like he screwed up with the size of the chunk he was taking off and the geometry of his rope placement almost in the center of the log, that it was sheer good fortune that that wildly swinging log didn't nail him when it came back in his direction. Seems like his ground guys were asleep at the switch too - shouldn't they have been letting out line to get it lowering and dissipate energy as soon as it was free?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ehbSFnlDDfU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
The spinning wood probably gives the impression of a lot of load on the rope (likely a big double-braid rigging line). Its pretensioned rigging that keeps it from dropping much, causing a lot of load on the line. That's midpoint/ balance point rigging. That log will crush a guy in an instant.

Normally, dropping the load is the thing to do to clear the climber. It could be the camera distorting the distances. Reg is the climber. He might chime in. As a contract climber, having the best rope man is not a normal situation.

That could have been a cool as a cucumber, or change your shorts moment.

A hockle in the rope can jam it, over-wrapping the lowering device bollard can lock up the rope, rope can snag if not properly prepped (neatly flaked out, away from sticks, etc). Stuff happens. Rookie ropers are dangerous if the climber doesn't mitigate the situaion. Those guys were probably pretty dialed in.
 
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SouthSoundTree said:
That's midpoint/ balance point rigging.
Click to expand...
Not clear why it's considered a good idea here - the fact that it's in the middle and swung from a pivot point at such an extreme angle is what makes it swing around like that - had it been attached closer to the end it wouldn't have behaved that way. Just the first impact against the tree shook it enough to be dangerous.

Why not just cut smaller chunks?

The next section that gets cut the ground guys have it lowering before it swings around and hits the tree.
 
It looks like that 1:54 drop could have been a life changer..a lot of force spinning in that log. Letting it run some would have protected the climber, you are right.
 
If that was my rope guy I would invest in a little more than a helmet . Like maybe some body armor or at the least a new rope guy.
I always cut big and there is one thing you need more than anything when doing big cuts, thats control. If you cant figure out u have two many wraps after the first log somersault/backflip near bone crushing experience you should start dragging brush. I usually put 2 ropes, spider leg, or a control line on a piece that large. After you put a spiderleg on the tip and base of your cut. If you "put a box and not a snap cut" then the rope guy can let the piece lower till the piece is about level to -15degrees, as piece swings around and pops let the rest run. You just decreased the liability to your body dramitaclly. For one your not dodging logs that are flying at you, you steer piece away from you at a more controlable speed. (Predictaility) If the piece doesn't start to fall while your doing the back cut , its a good indication of too many wraps
 
Robert, the best way to understand this is to 1) get a text book geared at learning tree climbing to understand a lot more, and have the technical terminology down pat, making discussions more useful, 2) get Jerry Beranek's Working Climber videos, 3) set up the scenario on a micro scale with your arm as the rigging point to compare butt hitching and balance point rigging.

Again, its hard to say if Reg is sitting there knowing its all going to be okay, or if he's in need of fresh shorts.

I've dumped off a heavy madrone log like that ( Pretensioned, balance point tied, swinging into another trunk) on 1/2" arbor-plex. It spun like heck, smashing into the other trunks of the tree. No big deal. Looked like 'oh F$%, that's gonna break', but no big deal. I overloaded the SWL on that rope, so then downgraded it to non critical uses.


If that looks like a heck of a load on the rope from spinning, hang a piece of wood from your extended arm, spin it, and see how much more load in on the rope. The spinning up of the rope is not good, but not horrible. I had a number of revolutions on it, but not like 25 revolutions on 25' of rope from the block to the log.
 
The fellow running the rope should have let it down a bit. It was like he just held it solid for some odd reason.
 
very surprising to see Reg was the climber there..

With any one else I would say there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to tie those pieces off above the COG, especially the piece at 1:54... doesn't matter who is running the ropes..
Tie them off slightly below the COG, and use a nice clean rip cut right at the union and let em peel down and away..

Maybe its old footage... just looked its from 2009.. Pretty sure he wouldn't do that today.. or maybe I have something to learn here..
 
Its an optical illusion. I was never at risk there. My body language ought to suggest that in the clip. I slowed it down in the vid for effect. Steve, the guy running the lines didnt want the limb wrapping around the tree with all that momentum if he'd let it run....so he just held it until it settled. No biggie. Those guys run the ropes as good as anyone....watch part 1 and then decide.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/T19AHQnhzB4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
(optical illusion) ur right if that was anywhere near u it would of struck climbing line on those spins 1:54 thats why i would love to have 2 cams show ground view and then climbers view
 
Anyone that's made a few tree vids KNOWS that they can be extremely deceptive.... and I have no doubt that you were out of harms way.. Still, unless there is a reason to tip tie a piece, you;re better off tying just below the COG instead of above it...
 
murphy4trees said:
Anyone that's made a few tree vids KNOWS that they can be extremely deceptive.... and I have no doubt that you were out of harms way.. Still, unless there is a reason to tip tie a piece, you;re better off tying just below the COG instead of above it...
Click to expand...

Im not really big into inverting (Butt tieing) logs. The line angle there wasnt the most favourable, so the higher tie supported and guided the log around in the direction I wanted it to swing. Any lower with the line and id have had to put a face in it. Thats two more cuts than I need to make. On video it looks like something....but in reality it was just a nothing moment than came and passed....same as probably 10,000 other moments/logs that Ive rigged.
 
murphy4trees said:
REg,
I'll politely disagree... I would have cut those without even an undercut...
Click to expand...

And I politely accept that Danno. Amazes me how people pick out one little log, which essentially was a none event, ignore everything else in a 2 part video and try to make something of it.I probably used less than a tank of gas to strip that tree. I often use that as an indicator of whether or not I've been efficient.
 
anyone that's ever seen one of those slam the trunk just wrong then take off with all that energy going into the whip around the other side of the tree with pendulum and spin, all the while wondering why the groundie isn't letting it down, only to watch the top of the piece slam into the trunk within a couple feet of your body knows why the OP was concerned... anyone that's made enough vids and seen a few of yours ought to take your word that it was no big deal... Keeping a big removal under a tank of gas is good and still there is always room for improvement... most don't want to change though.. for whatever reason...
 
One thing I have long liked about this forum is that when we admit to our failings we get a lot of support in return. It shows a good psychological take on the forum in general.
 
Reg is top notch and a gentle man to boot.
All I saw was he knew what is was going to do when he cut it. Ready for how it was going to swing etcetera.
His grounds men are top notch as well. I would have rope for me any day.
If Reg had felt at risk cutting that log loose that way, he would not have. simple.
Should some in experienced person try to mid point rig with limited experience. Absolutely not.
 
murphy4trees said:
anyone that's ever seen one of those slam the trunk just wrong then take off with all that energy going into the whip around the other side of the tree with pendulum and spin, all the while wondering why the groundie isn't letting it down, only to watch the top of the piece slam into the trunk within a couple feet of your body knows why the OP was concerned... anyone that's made enough vids and seen a few of yours ought to take your word that it was no big deal... Keeping a big removal under a tank of gas is good and still there is always room for improvement... most don't want to change though.. for whatever reason...
Click to expand...
Ive had more than my share of heart stopping moments Dan. That wasnt one of them. It is possible that I have the head cam clip somehwere, still on a card perhaps. If I can find it, you'll see clearly that it was just average log harmlessly bumping around against a bigger log. Re: your comment about people not wanting to change - Ignorance has been one of my best assets throughout my time in treework. Thats the truth.
 
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