Wire Core Flip Line??

I like about 8 feet of line for a flip line. I have a long (15'?) wire core that comes out on rare occasion. If my rope flip line doesn't reach around the trunk at ground level it usually does 15- 20' up and then I climb my rope till I get there
 
Well I know it can be done, but for the sake of simplicity, it aint near as simple as making a rope lanyard.
 
In the woods we just wrapped a new 3 strand manila around the wire core and we had a "new" flipline in 15 minutes
 
Anytime I have to run up a spar with spikes on, I use the wirecore line. It may just be a question of what one is used to, but for me it's much easier to flip than a rope lanyard.
Saying that any line can be cut by a chainsaw is both right and wrong: if you hit a rope, you cut it, whereas it takes maybe 10 seconds to cut through the wirecore.
I mean, only a complete idiot runs a saw against a line for 10 seconds in a treetop.
 
I use a wire core only when working on palm trees. We use a cane knife to trim palms. A very light hit with the knife on a regular rope under tension will cut it in half. A few guys use chain for their lanyard when trimming palms. That is very old school, but they still like using chain.
 
Hey Ranger, I enjoy watching your skills develop as a climber. It is nice to have your dad and all the years of experience here on this forum for you to go to when you have questions.

Try to remember when you ask a bunch of veterans "what's the best" chainsaw, rope or lanyard you are going to get multiple responses. Generally based on personal preferences. Probably every single one of these guys could switch equipment to what they are arguing against and still be very productive. They have just learned to do it the way they like and see no point in changing. And that's ok.

My advice to you, is to go ahead and try different setups so you can make an informed personal choice for your own circumstances, likes and desires.

I use both the wire core and a nonwire core lanyard, depending on what I am doing.

One of the advantages of the heavy wire core that hasn't been mentioned is its ability to stay in a straight line and not snag rough bark when it is flipped either up or down. Keep an open mind and have fun while you are learning.

Dave
 
DMc said:
One of the advantages of the heavy wire core that hasn't been mentioned is its ability to stay in a straight line and not snag rough bark when it is flipped either up or down.
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That's why I prefer using a bullrope over a climbing line, especially the old style Super Braid Plus. It's a harder lay, tough as nails, yet I can still use it for light roping.
 
It is all technique. A wire core is easier to "flip" on med diameter trees (3-4') After that you won't go far at all if you can't roll.
The wire core line came about cause when you were bumping limbs you used an axe. Less chance of geezing your flipline if it had a wire core.
Next summer everyone can come out and climb a large tree with hooks and flipline, whatsay this portion of the discussion gets continued then?:)
 
top hopper said:
Well being that the standard for cutting with a chainsaw requires 2 points of attachment, nicking a lanyard (any lanyard) you should live because your other attachment will catch you.

Whenever someone uses the cut resistance of a wire core in their reasoning to use one I can only think they are using false hope.

I still dont see any real advantage unless the trees being ascended are massively Redwoodish huge.

Ive never bought a lanyard in my life. I make them all. You cant just make a wire core.
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First point I'd much rather 'nick' a wirecore while being TIT and not have to fall into my second tie in with a running saw. But again I've never tested that out.

To your 2nd point. I climbed and rigged spars for five years with just a steel core flipline and as Wiley P mentioned when bumping limbs it's definetly not false hope compared to a non-wirecore.

To your 3rd point as I and Wiley P have mentioned it's the medium to decent sized conifers that the stiffness of the wirecore gives an advantage on imo. We don't have redwoods up here but I can't imagine to many people are 'rolling' a steel core on the huge suckers.

To your last point, making up your own lanyards is definetly a nice thing to be able to do, but regardless at some point in time you bought the rope/hitch cord that you're using to do so.

I have no problem with people not using a wirecore, what would I really care if they did or didn't? As to RD's original inquiry, he's a young go getter and as DMc has said learning a multitude of techniques with all different types of gear is only going to benefit him and help him build experience to base his own decisions/refinements on.

I have no doubt Tophopper that you're a much more talented climber than me and through your experience you've refined your gear and use what works well for you. I've tried flipping spars with a non-wirecore light line and I found it very ackward. Wirecore works for me so I stick with it.

8)
 
I would like to clarify here; I have heard several comments on the inability to roll a cable-core flip line. We used to climb the larger eucs and redwoods with 25' flip lines with cable core. Which you could indeed roll. It really depends on the lay of the rope and wire combination.

We were using 7/8" and 3/4" manila. You could throw a fantastic roll in those things. The downside was, they lasted about two weeks climbing.

Dave
 
Great post Squish ...
I know when I am way out on a limb and especially using my flip line for helping with work positioning... the last thing I would want TIT is losing that flip line.. fall off the limb... and maybe swing back 10 - 20 feet and slam a trunk... No I won't hit the ground... But something like that would definitely hurt!
And yup, cable core is just my personal preference. What I am most comfortable with as a flip line.
And I like Dave's post too.... It is very much personal preference. I am relatively new to this work and I am trying everything to see what my preferences are.. I love your enthusiasm and the fact you really seem to try to educate your self in everything you try or do Adrian.. Keep trying different approved methods safely and you will find what works best for you. I think you will also find that different things work best for you in different scenarios also... :)
I think you are really on the right track with a lot of things.. My hat is off to you. Wish I had been able to start doin this work and get it dialed in at your age.
 
squisher said:
First point I'd much rather 'nick' a wirecore while being TIT and not have to fall into my second tie in with a running saw. But again I've never tested that out.

To your 2nd point. I climbed and rigged spars for five years with just a steel core flipline and as Wiley P mentioned when bumping limbs it's definetly not false hope compared to a non-wirecore.

To your 3rd point as I and Wiley P have mentioned it's the medium to decent sized conifers that the stiffness of the wirecore gives an advantage on imo. We don't have redwoods up here but I can't imagine to many people are 'rolling' a steel core on the huge suckers.

To your last point, making up your own lanyards is definetly a nice thing to be able to do, but regardless at some point in time you bought the rope/hitch cord that you're using to do so.

I have no problem with people not using a wirecore, what would I really care if they did or didn't? As to RD's original inquiry, he's a young go getter and as DMc has said learning a multitude of techniques with all different types of gear is only going to benefit him and help him build experience to base his own decisions/refinements on.

I have no doubt Tophopper that you're a much more talented climber than me and through your experience you've refined your gear and use what works well for you. I've tried flipping spars with a non-wirecore light line and I found it very ackward. Wirecore works for me so I stick with it.

8)
Click to expand...

I was merely saying how I dont see the advantages of a wirecore in day to day use. Where did you read that I was trying to say I was a better climber?
 
We were using 7/8" and 3/4" manila. You could throw a fantastic roll in those things. The downside was, they lasted about two weeks climbing.
Click to expand...

Two weeks? Lordy, what the hell were you doing? I used 3/4" manila steel core for years. Does not make sense to me.
merely saying how I dont see the advantages of a wirecore in day to day use.
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One of the biggest advantages is that it is not so floppy. When you get used to it, it has alot of advantages over a regular rope flip line.
Remember, wire core or not, you can get them in different diameters. Are you thinking of a large diameter flip line being awkward for smaller trees?
 
Frans said:
Two weeks? Lordy, what the hell were you doing? I used 3/4" manila steel core for years. Does not make sense to me.
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Two weeks might have been a slight exaggeration. Like the cartoon pictures in Sherrill's catalog merely to illustrate its high-wear characteristics.

I'm just as perplexed as how you could use a 3/4" manila flip line for years and still be around for typing.

The only time I have come completely out of a tree was with the breaking of a 3/4" strand wire core. It was a store bought and, silly me, I thought they would do something more with the wire than just turn it back on itself. Like splice an eye! Apparently not. When the rope broke, the cable slipped out so fast I didn't have time to grab, just a free fall.

Obviously no big deal, cause I'm still here. However,.....

For years after that I made my own. Finally broke down and got a Yale Maxi-Flip, 5/8" that I really like.

Dave
 
Lot's of good input. I'm old school PNW trained in spur climbing, so I started with 3/4 inch manilla cable core, from 12 to 24 feet. You most certainly can western roll cable cored lanyards :)...better be able to, in fact.

Going straight up a fairly clear bole conifer of decent size, there is no better flipline than a cable core.

I mostly use 5/8 polyester cable core now, for spur climbing, with a Macrograb adjuster...pitch is an issue hereabouts.

One other reason to use a cable cored lanyard with spurs is that the real possibility exists to gaff your own lanyard when climbing...as the tail hangs down the tree near your feet. If you do that on a smaller tree, then go up a large one, the section you damaged could then be between the snaphook and the adjuster...not good.

If I'm not climbing on spurs, and not using a cutting tool, I don't use a cable core.
 
I tend to use steel-core fliplines on removals when I'm cutting all the way through the trunk in front of me, and non-steel core lanyards on pruning & trimming jobs.

After I started working at Wesspur, I learned just how common it is to cut a flipline. It always seems to happen on a removal on the way back down when a stub holds the flipline up on the opposite side of the tree from into the path of the saw. From where you are sitting it looks like the flipline is safely below the cut. By then you are tired and close to the end of the job, and often working with a bigger saw. Everybody I've ever heard this story from said they felt the saw hit the cable, but thought it was just a nail or something and so kept cutting. Next thing you know, you are lying on your back seeing stars (if you're lucky). That being said, a steel-core flipline sure is a lot harder to cut through than a plain rope lanyard is. Just know that you can cut through them.
 
Dont most of the competition climbers use extremly long laynerds of rope ?
I like mine so long i can lower down a bit .
Or use the other end as a double laynerd if needed.
 
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