Tree work thoughts

[cory]

I'm going to pose an issue that may have no breakthrough answer but here goes. No better place for it than the The House.

I've mentioned here before that The Ninja, my gifted climber and right hand man for 10 years, recently left me to move down South to be with the love of his life, a relationship he rekindled. So I became the main climber as I had been before he arrived, and I replaced him with an unskilled ground guy. On my best day ever as a younger climber I could never have equalled the ninja in terms of strength, agility, balance and nerve. Plus he was very mechanically inclined, and an excellent driver etc etc. So when he left I wasn't even sure how I was going to be able to persist in business cuz I'm a lot older now and I had become very reliant on him. Well after awhile I was honestly amazed to find that we were doing the same or better financially as when he was here. I still haven't fully figured out how that is but in terms of the climbing aspect, while he was an awesome climber in the tree, he would frequently be stopping to eat, to piss, to shit, to go back to the truck to get gear he forgot to get earlier, to check his phone, to bullshit, etc. I on the other hand am totally focused and methodical and I virtually never stop for anything, I just non stop grind full time. Not so hard that I can't work the following day but I basically never stop.
So things are fairly good and we are getting it done. My concern is about being the owner and the main climber. It was probably at The House that I once heard the phrase 'its hard to run a business from the top of a tree' and I 100% agree. So I have this nagging concern in the back of my mind that, as the owner, I may make a serious mistake while climbing because I have too much on my mind. I'm sure a lot of us are familiar with the case of Cameron, tree service owner from NJ who built up an apparently awesome small tree business that owned several cranes including a brand new, beautiful, serious, 60t or 70t crane. He was the main climber and was killed when he fell while transitioning from the ball to tree because he forgot to lanyard in, he leaned back and poof, he was gone. I imagine he had too much on his mind besides what he was doing- the next job, tonights appointments, getting this job done on schedule, a troublesome employee, etc etc) and it killed him. I'm worried the same could happen to me. Yes of course you may say 'just focus full time' but it doesn't seem that simple.
You might say get a new climber but that is highly difficult as you all know. My current guys are learning but at a slow pace (the ninja had a knack for the work and so he learned and progressed quickly).
So I'm just venting, wondering if there are some perspectives here that might shed some new light on my thoughts. Thanks.

 

[cory]

And you might say omg don't be a bitch. But its not about climbing, I know how to do that, it's more the bigger picture.

 

[Mick!]

I’m still the only climber/business owner, you’re the only indispensable guy on your firm.

You CAN run a firm from the top of a tree, reply to messages at lunchtime and in the evening.

 

[lxskllr]

I don't know how much money you need, but more isn't always better. IOW, unless you're a couple gigs away from being homeless, I wouldn't worry about it. Take it easy, do a good job, and don't worry about expanding/growing as long as you're making acceptable money now. I don't care all that much about money, so take that for what it's worth.

 

[SeanKroll]

Buy a spider lift if you're climbing much because of bucket-truck access???


What can you outsource or delegate to others from work tasks to personal needs?
Might be easier to find someone who can grocery shop and clean the house, maintain your house/ yard, than replace your skill set in action.

 

[BeerGeek]

As the business noob to this (and not too much younger than you), I face that concern each day I gear up and head up there. I haven't had the #1 climber scenario yet, but am slowly grooming one of my brush monkeys, and have a kid who has a knack for getting into trees lined up as well. Yea, you will probably find that as the owner, you operate at a much better pace than most employees ever will (as the biz is your baby to take care of; they mostly care about their paycheck/how many hours they can squeeze out of you). It's just a matter of keeping your focus on the job at hand, without letting things like the Cameron scenario continually nag at you until your next ninja comes along (if he/she ever does).

Also, I learned early on that it's best to take the whole crew on a walkthrough of the day's job and let them know how you have it planned out in your head, and see what they may have to add/comment on. That extra 5-10 minutes has already paid off handsomely on a job or 2, where something they came up with actually saved a ton of time/frustration, and gave them the added bonus of confidence they need.

 

[Tree09]

@cory do you have a lift? Have you thought about hiring another climber? Obviously you are seeing how working smart always wins over fast, and are doing very well cause you're amazing. As a guy who has been a boss over a bunch of guys before (different trade but it's basically the same), you will find that virtually no one will do better than yourself, but you can't do everything, so you need to delegate. You can help guide them, but no matter what he's gonna likely be slower, so plan for that by using your time to get more work and stepping in till you can get yet another guy. Personally if i was there business wise i would look into getting guys who have been doing line clearance, for a few bucks more you could maybe pick up a guy who's looking for something better and he will be at least competent. If you can get a lift you would be able to dumb it down even more, and still get production.

 

[BeerGeek]

Kyle, don't know about where you live, but in my area (not far from where Cory is, and assuming similar job scenarios), lots of jobs end up not being bucket/lift accessible, or even feasible. Also seeing how the insurance is around these parts (probably the worst in my state), those options can be cost prohibitive. I know I will eventually own one or both, but only when I see enough estimates/work I turn down actually needing them (and then watching my prices escalate along with them).

 

[frans]

Lots of good suggestions. Bottoms line is if you climb, then you limit your production.
If you do decide to climb, then you are severely limited by how good your groundies are.

Becoming a manager is an entirely different skill set

 

[DMc]

I'm going to give you some different advice. You already have this! Yes, working the way you do has limits but is not inherently more dangerous. Know your limits and don't let anyone or anything push you.

People that have trouble in this are the ones that are always thinking two steps ahead, trying for more. Relax, and take the time to enjoy what you are doing.

 

[pantheraba]

I like that advice. It's a mindset thing.

 

[Mellow]

I've been a tree business owner for 35 years now and I really do love being out in the field doing the hands on work. I started from scratch with a pickup truck, two chain saws, a rope and a saddle. Over the years, my company grew to the point where I was pretty much out of the picture; I had a salesman doing bids, two office workers, and up to three full time crews with bucket trucks, chippers, grinders, etc. And yet somehow the stress level was causing anxiety and panic attacks. Constantly worrying about equipment breaking, property getting damaged, employees not showing up, and all the rest was overwhelming. When the economy went south around 2008, I downsized drastically to myself, two field employees, and one part-time office worker. The stress vanished and I was much happier being the guy cutting trees again. I don't climb much these days; the Niftylift SD-64 is my bread and butter. I can also guarantee that an aerial lift will increase your productivity.

 

[Tree09]

If you can get a pickup truck to the tree, you can get a lift there. You don't need a dedicated line clearance truck designed to trim street trees to do tree work, a 50 foot tow behind at your local rental store will do wonders. As a climber, you are forced to rig more because in a lift you can get right under it and manhandle limbs, throwing them to the landing zone. You can move effortlessly through the air, rigging or bombing limbs anywhere. I'm a mediocre climber, but put me in a lift and i can flat out put trees on the ground.

Your chipper is worth more than my whole operation excluding my truck, and i rent a lift all the time. If i was full time i would rent one by the month, it costs less than a ground guy that way and i don't have to worry about it at all, no maintenance or insurance. I would love to own one and will someday, but if you have the work one can make you some money. With your huge (to me) chipper with a winch you could wait 5 minutes after a guy starts and run it till the tree is in the truck. 2 removals a day no problem on not huge trees. I can see if you are in tall conifers all the time where a lift isn't going to work, but in shorter spreading trees a lift is awesome

 

[BeerGeek]

Kyle, what I'm referring to is what I believe (knowing how lots of NJ and Conn. are) is homeowner and small commercial yards where a lift/bucket/pickup can't even get to the trees (lots of hills & fences here w/barely 36" gates). The last 4 jobs I've done were all in back yards for multiple 70+ft trees that no aerial device or truck could get to (outside of a monster sized crane). Where you are, things are probably more wide open allowing for that; properties tend to be more isolated in this part of the country.

Of course, where Cory is may be different, that's for him to comment on.

I'm just presenting my ASSumptions, of course.

 

[cory]

Many superb responses, I knew posting this here was a good idea. Mucho Gracias.

I have a beastly effective 75' rear mount terex bucket truck, it probably gets 70% of the aerial work, I couldn't be in biz without it.
My groundies are pretty good. It took a long while to get one of em good on the ropes. The Ninja had damn hydraulic winches for arms and grip and he was intuitively expert on the ropes. He's flying up for a week to knock out some big job with usi.

The ideas that click most with me are Dmc, Gary, and Mellow:
"Working the way you do has limits but is not inherently more dangerous. Know your limits and don't let anyone or anything push you.
People that have trouble in this are the ones that are always thinking two steps ahead, trying for more. Relax, and take the time to enjoy what you are doing."

"It's a mindset thing."

"Constantly worrying about equipment breaking, property getting damaged, employees not showing up, and all the rest was overwhelming. When the economy went south around 2008, I downsized drastically to myself, two field employees, and one part-time office worker. The stress vanished and I was much happier being the guy cutting trees again." I never had the big operation, always just 3 guys, but I've thought about it plenty as we usually have a lot of work. But reading that perspective about having been a multi crew operation and being much happier being small and hands on is valuable.

 

[cory]

People that have trouble in this are the ones that are always thinking two steps ahead, trying for more.

That is me to a T.

I don't disagree with you. It's what happened to Cameron. But I find it interesting to see this put into words because in so many other pursuits and endeavors, thinking several steps ahead and trying for more are keys to success.

 

[Tree09]

Ok, you have a badass lift then!!!! Yeah you got this, running guys is stress, that's exactly why i turned my company truck in and told them i would happily go back to the tools, but I'm done running work for them. I've since left that contractor and have been offered foreman jobs since, and i have turned them down because the stress isn't worth the money.

 

[flushcut]

My show is me and one other guy right now. I cut, run books, run estimates, I do it all. But I have been blessed with the mental ability to block out everything except for the task at hand.
Stay focused on what you are doing at the moment. Is my advice. The rest will come out in the wash.

 

[DMc]

There is a big difference between thinking ahead on the job, about the job, compared to thinking about the next big purchase and what that will do to your bottom line, while cutting trees.

You don't strike me as the latter type, Cory. A thinker, yes, always striving to better yourself, yes. I just don't see you being fixated on always needing more. You have skills and good equipment that you appreciate, you just worry too much. Bad shit can happen, but you can't let that be your guide. Life is for living.

 

[Jonny]

Do any of your ground workers seem interested in learning to climb? If so, do you think it’d be worth it to train them?

 

[cory]

I don't know why I missed these last couple replies.

running guys is stress, that's exactly why i turned my company truck in and told them i would happily go back to the tools, I've since left that contractor and have been offered foreman jobs since, and i have turned them down because the stress isn't worth the money.

Running guys sure is stress, you got that right. But it's probably cuz I'm not a good leader. The SEALS say there are no bad boat crews, just bad boat crew leaders.

Jonny, they say they want to learn but they don't do anything about it.

 

[Tree09]

So how's everything going lately?

 

[cory]

I mean I guess pretty good but it could be a lot better. My guys are the kind of guys that have one speed. Hey there's good and bad about that, but sometimes it drives me nuts there's not more hustle or drive.

you just worry too much.

Ha! My crane guy, who is a good all around person as well as an excellent op, recently said I was a control freak. Hey, if he said it, maybe there's truth to it. I would prefer to call myself a control enthusiast. But yeah nah yeah.

 

[Mick!]

My nephew is still keen and takes instruction very well, running the machine and chipper he is up to speed.

Finding the right trees with enough time on the job is the trick.

 

[Patrick A]

@cory
Your point about one speed is interesting. I had quoted a 4 hour job to remove a big stem and clean it up. 2 hours after we started, my guy and I were done, drenched in sweat, out of breath and on our way out of the client's yard. The client and I still can't believe we were able to hustle that much. Now I am trying to find out everything that made this happen and re-apply it on the next job.