Tree Machine's Shotline Winder

[Tree Machine]

As well as the different reels, I was trying different bags and different lines.

The line in this image, whatever it was, sucked, until it got wet and then it horribly sucked.

Some of the bags I used also sucked, big pickle-shaped torpedo things, fine and dandy for hand-tossing, but lousey for the BigShot. And then there were really good ones, nice compact shape, good for tossing or firing but they would puff out lead dust after a few hundred slams back to earth.

The shotline winder development naturally coursed through the trials of a LOT of different bag styles and types, as well as different shotlines.

I've spent a small fortune.

 

[Tree Machine]

At this point, several years have elapsed. I went to buy another of the original yellow extension cord reels because I was tired of trying and testing other types and styles. Through all this time and effort, the original yellow one stood out.

Zing-it line was now on the market and I wanted to try this former good reel with this new fabulous line. I went to the hardware store, and they were out of them. I described the extension cord reel, and yea, they were familiar with it but said they hadn't seen it in awhile. They said the company was Woods, and they showed me where it had been. In it's place, a new style reel, much like one that had failed earlier on. So I took down the number of the Woods company off that reel, went home and called them. OUT OF PRODUCTION. That's when I asked about them custom-making a finished shotline reel for us, e-mailed him pictures and followed up and all. that's when we got the mnimum 10,000 unit schpeel. They really didn't want to touch a product that couldn't be mass-produced and distributed through their channels. OK, fair enough.

But I was out of an excellent raw reel.

 

[Tree Machine]

So now it's an obsession, the search for the ideal reel.

Spring, 2005, I was traveling with Elizabeth on a roadtrip and we stopped into this "Tools Tarps Gloves" place about 400 Km from home. Wouldn't you know it? There was one that looked promising. Knowing I wouldn't be back there any time soon, I asked for their business card, took a chance and bought ten.

The instinct was spot-on! This reel was much like the original yellow one, but it was black. I made one and it worked GREAT! I used it for a couple months, then had a little altercation with a stump grinder. Let's fast-forward to November, when I was just again able to sort of walk

With the 2005 TCIA expo upcoming, I rented a booth space on the expo floor so us forum guys would have a place to meet. I made two reels the day before, put them together kinda fast, and got my butt to Columbis, Ohio.

Real shortly after hitting the expo floor, I met Koa Man, and Hobby Climber. Our forum booth was right next to the spider lift guys. That afternoon I watched Koa Man carve out a check for $45,000 for a new lift. Of course, I asked to take a ride up as I'd never been in any sort of manlift, spider lift or bucket truck up to that point. They said no. I said, "Sir, I need to shoot a video for Mr. Koa Man's wife." I stood there with my video cam. Koa stood back, silent, a wistful smile on his face. They obliged me.

(I tried posting the 2.6 meg video without success)

 

[Tree Machine]

So Koa and I got together after the expo floor closed and went and had dinner. I'm with this legendary Arborist, sitting at the same table, Britney Spears or God could have walked in and I wouldn't have even noticed. I mean, this was the actual Koa Man!

So during dinner, Britney comes up and tries to seduce me, and I'm like, "Look chick, I'm having dinner with the Koa Man." Then God walks up, I'm like, "Dude, can't you see I'm busy?"

Some people!


Anyway, cutting through to the end, I'm feeling like Koa has traveled one HECK of a long way to the middle of the US heartland, and dropped a monster wad of cash earlier on his new toy and I just wanted to offer a gift, so I put this shotline reel in his hands.

 

[Tree Machine]

If you look closely at his reel above, you'll notice that the top plate that was cut off, I then adhered back to the underside. I was just trying different things. The curvature of one side was identical to the other, so nesting and gluing them together should make the base plate more durable, add some heft, possibly give me a good place to put these otherwise useless cutoff tops.

Something about that incarnation still wasn't right. The little handle on the underside made the whole reel tilt. What if I didn't want tilt, like when stowing the unit away? It would just be better flat.

On the next one, I planned to adhere the base plate the same as Koa Man's, but first I would drill a series of pencil-diameter holes from the inside edge to the outside edge, THEN glue the two together. Remove the crank handle. Now it would lay flat and by using a small stick, the stick became the crank and by sticking it in any one of the various holes, you could change the diameter of rotation and thus the speed of the reeling; the closer in, the faster.

 

[Tree Machine]

I'm still not happy with it. The extra bulk of the base plate was not an advantage, but it was not a disadvantage either that I could sense. But as far as compact stowing, that big baseplate was too big in diameter. I started cutting them down, making the overall size smaller by cropping the baseplate.

Now we had a smaller baseplate with no crank handle. I drilled holes to accomodate the stick as a handle, but if the stick protruded through, it would interfere with the line being winded. I adhered a metal ring, creating a slightly raised profile, but you could use the same stick as a handle. That worked, but it STILL didn't seem quite right.

Back to the drawing board, I still had 5 or 6 extension cord reels left, keep trying.

Somewhere in this era I was introduced to the Harrison Rocket, a MAGNIFICENT shot bag, great throwing profile, excellent shooting shape and the lead shot is encased inside a bladder within and then the cordura cover is sewn around that. No more lead dust poofs and toxic gray powder grunge.

 

[Tree Machine]

The line is excellent, the bag is excellent, the new compact size is cool, this thing has evolved, but it's still not quite right. I can't put my finger on it. The metal depression ring is hokey, the Arborist is expected to come up with a stick every time he wants to wind the reel. I just knew we could do better.

So I was on vacation, this time, last year. Over time I'd assembled enough tree gear in Florida so that when I come down to visit, I've got the basics; saddle, rope, Silky saws. My Dad has chainsaws. On the trip down I decided to add a shotline winder to the vacation arsenal. I showed it to Dad, told him I was trying to solve the problem of being able to wind up the reel, easily and with lightning speed, without having a crank handle sticking out and I don't want to have to find the ideal stick every time the reel needs reeling. He looked, thought for half a second and said, "Fishing swivel", turned and got a tackle box and the problem, for all practical purposes, was solved.

 

[Tree Machine]

But the base was too small. After thousands of uses, the natural feeling was to take the bag in hand, and toss the reel, like a light frisbee throw, to somehere just out in front of your feet. With the smaller profile, it would sometimes hit the ground and roll over.

Now, I know this is a miniscule detail in the overall picture, but we're on a mission here. I know some day I'm gonna have to get up in front of the online Arbo world and give something akin to a formal presentation and after, you're gonna hammer me with questions. Any missed detail will be scrutinized, you're gonna put me through the wringer on this and I want to be ready for that day.

I just didn't think today was going to be the day.

So back to the base being now too small. Also, I didn't care for the original big base as it had that curvature to it, and triangular holes. I really liked the smaller base, but mostly because it was flat. I wanted a wider base, for it to be flat and to add structure and strength to the reel. It should also be attractive

So how to make it flat. Glue it to something round and flat, duh. That something needs to be flat, light and indestructable. Hmmmm, carbon fiber graphite? Too expensive. Plastic?.....which?

I came up with polycarbonate, the stuff they use on the roofs of greenhouses, corru-plas I've heard it called when you make yard signs out of it. I happened to have had some scrap of that around, so I glued the small base to it. Nice. I can flip it like a frisbee and it lands and stays the way it should. And the swivel worked great!

 

[Tree Machine]

I quickly went to make another one, while I was still inspired and on an improvement roll.

On the next one I needed to solve two more things. 1. the swivel on this last model came all the way up through the polycarbonate and was secured by a piece of ziptie. We can do better than that, think, c'mon, this should be a no brainer.....got it! On the underside, make a tiny slice in the polycarbonate, in between and perpindicular to the ribs. Slip the swivel in there, put a thin skewer stick into the rib channel and through the swivel loop where you'd normally tie your fishing line. Add a touch of adhesive to keep the skewer stic from moving. Done.

Problem 2. how to pack the shotbag away in the handle compartment so the line won't come unwound and the shotbag won't fall out of the handle compartment, like when the reel gets jostled around or dumped out of the tool bin. Here's the pic of the solution:

 

[Tree Machine]

Right about this time, Tobe Sherrill comes out with an improved model BigShot (Picture above). But wait there's more, the new Sherrill shotbags, exact replicates of the Harrison Rocket in dayglo orange, now in 14 and 16 ounce sizes. Holy Crapinoli!

 

[Tree Machine]

So that's about where it is right now, folks. New England has come out with a lime fluorescent green shotline that is the same as our familiar ZingIt, so we've got 3 cool colors of line, cool, world class bags, new and improved BigShot.... it is just a great time in history to be a treeguy.

 

[Tree Machine]

Ladies and gents, it is 6 am right now. I started this at 11 pm. I truly hope it hasn't taken you 7 hours to read it. I think I have said all there is to say. I hope I have answered the bulk of the questions you may have had.


Last thing before I go crash.

I called the "Tools Tarps and Gloves" place a couple months back and asked what the price might be for a hundred of the black electrical cord reels (I was just curious). He said he's sold out of them the week before, and when ordering more learned that there were no more in stock from his distributor. He wouldn't be carrying them anymore


Interesting scenario, eh?

I have three left, two made-up and one last unconverted cord reel. I apologise. They're not for sale.

Thank you, those of you who made it through the last 20 or so posts. You deserve a reading endurance award.

Questions?

 

[pantheraba]

Thank you, those of you who made it through the last 20 or so posts. You deserve a reading endurance award.

Questions?

Jim, I am flabbergasted...wonderful presentation. I am headed out to work and will have to let this digest some and come back and read it again.

Thanks for taking time to share the process of your development with us...that is a well documented evolution.

I am looking forward to getting back later to read further. Get some rest, mister.

 

[Frans]

I have a couple of questions. But first thank you for sharing your idea with us.
I just might have to make one of these.
1. When you reel in the line, how does the line 'fairlead' onto the drum? It seems like you need two hands to operate the drum itself.
One hand to hold the inner handle in the middle of the spool, and one hand to hold the handle/fishing swivel.
Do you stand lightly on the throw line in order to keep tension on the throwline as you wind it up?

If there was some way to attach the reel to your body, then you could hold the line as you reel it in.

Am I making sense?

2.How far out does the lip on the edge of the spool extend? Looks about maybe 1/8" from the photos?

I am thinking that the round collapsable storage bins would be great for stowing this device. The 'f'-cube would not be the best for storage as the reel could move about.
But if the line is secured tightly by the throw line being jammed into the inner handle of the reel, maybe a storage bag is not necessary unless you need to store multiple extra bags as well.

Thanks again. Looking forward to your replies.

 

[Burnham]

Outstanding presentation, Jim. Now I have to keep my eyes open for reels. Can you give some dimensions you think are about right for the spool?

 

[sotc]

very nice job! can we see i pic of how the swivel is attached?

 

[Koa Man]

Jim,
Sure glad to have you here and see that you are still on your mission to invent and improve. The shot reel you gave me works just fne for me. I see no need for it to lay flat and neither is the handle or the spring clip I use to hold the bag a problem. I don't have any need to carry a throw bag once I am in the tree. Trees here are generally more wide than tall and crotches are not that far apart. I just wish I had started using it earlier, but I packed up my house stuff shortly after I met you and had almost everything in a 16 and a 24 ft. storage container. It has only been a few months since I unpacked everything and started using the reel and it works just great. Thanks again for giving it to me, I really appreciate it.

Hopefully one day you will be able to visit Hawaii.

 

[xtremetrees]

I agree with panther I am flabergasted too bro. You did all this wrote all this compiled and presented all this for me. I think you understand altruism very well and self sacrafice has got to amusing to ya!. What a great read. You're certainly the throwball king round this joint!

 

[Hobby Climber]

TM,

Great post!


About your other issue...this may help! www.americaninsomniaassociation.org/aboutaia.htm

Later,

HC

 

[NickfromWI]

I have an idea on how you could terminate/secure the end of the throwline during storage, but let me wait until I get home. I'd like to draw it out for you.

love
nick

 

[NickfromWI]

Oh, and I know exactly what you're talking regarding getting the patent and all that stuff. It is mentally and financially exhausting. Everyone I talked to would tell me something else I had to do to get a patent (for some slack tenders I was working on). I too eventually gave up, realizing that I would have to sell them for more than double what a CMI mini pulley would cost.

love
nick

 

[Tree Machine]

Nick Araya, how the heck goes it? I'm still enjoying those dual-leg, three-eye hybrid cords for backing up the dual ascenders. I've still never had the duals fail, so your creation has never gotten much in the way of a workout, but the system works.

Thanks for further acknowledging the folly of the patent process. It's very deflating, both to the wallet and the inspiration. Then there's no guarantee the patent will hold up internationally.

For me to take this reel to market is truly prohibitively expensive and time-consuming. I really don't want to compromise my day job over it.

The way I see this happening is one of you has an uncle or someone you know in the plastics business. You show him this thread. He says, "Yea, I can build a die for that. We can pump out 500 of these a day for $X each." He makes us a garageload of them, we get a 10,000 foot reel of ZingIt line. Your 12 year-old brother winds a hundred eight feet of line onto each, inserts a swivel, a half a skewer stick, a dob of adhesive, done. The reel is done. The extreme end user (aka Treeguy) chooses his own preferred shotbag, mini biner as his personal option. It just doesn't have to be complex to get a reasonably priced, high-quality shotline reel to market.

We share this information with a representative of a fine and reputable Arborist supply, like Wesspur and we get 'r dun.

I am still amazed there is not one on the market yet. There's only been topical discussions on the buzz and AS.

I showed the yellow model to Tobe Sherrill at the TCIA Expo, Milwaukee 5 or 6 years ago. He held it in his own hands, said "Keep me informed." Now, he could have taken and developed the idea as it is a natural companion to his BigShot. But he hasn't, and for that I respect him greatly.

 

[Tree Machine]

You did all this wrote all this compiled and presented all this for me.

True, and thank you, X, for sharing it with everyone else.

I have an idea on how you could terminate/secure the end of the throwline during storage, but let me wait until I get home. I'd like to draw it out for you.

Careful now. I've worked really hard to keep this thing as absolutely simple as possible. All along the way I've tried to keep it boiled down to the least common denominator. It's easy to make things hard, but it's harder to keep things easy.

 

[Tree Machine]

There's only been topical discussions on the buzz and AS.

I get around. I went to tbuzz and tried once again unsuccessfully to re-register and join the conversation. Didn't happen. There was a shotline thread at AS a few years back, I was describing how to make one, the questions stopped. I don't generally like to monologue, so I waited for more input. There was none. The thread died.

Tom Dunlap came down to Indianapolis the Summer before last, stayed at my home for a couple nights, we worked part of a day together. Later on I sent him a couple gifts, a loaded shotline winder (line, bag and all) and a bar clamping device for sharpening chains. I even melted DUNLAP into the plastic on the handle of the reel with a hotknife.

Both gifts he sent back with a thank you note and that he had his own way of doing things. That is true, no doubt. I could tell by the way I had reeled it up, it had not even been used.

If there is another Dunlap out there, I will sell that reel to you.

(Also, keep any negative Tom comments to yourself, he's my friend)

 

[Tree Machine]

Jim,
The shot reel you gave me works just fine for me. I see no need for it to lay flat and neither is the handle or the spring clip I use to hold the bag a problem. Thanks again for giving it to me, I really appreciate it.

Your testimony gave this thread the wings to fly. I do want you to go over the top lip area with fine sandpaper, and then a light flaming with a propane torch on low. It's important for this rim to be totally smooth and rounded over for the 70 - 80 foot BigShots right off the reel. Not as critical on shorter shorts

Hopefully one day you will be able to visit Hawaii.

Ummm, yes, of course