Surviving the fall

[Jubal]

How does one avoid injury (or worse) from the leaning tree when felling the supporting tree?
https://www.masterblasterhome.com/showthread.php?11208-Barber-chair/page2
Ok, rather than running , but in which direction ?

 

[Grendel]

I would say the super-star cast of that thread covered it to conclusion.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Word.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Jubal, welcome. With regard to your question I always prefer roughly 90 degrees from my intended direction of fall. A lot of the barberchairs I've seen project back roughly 180 degrees from my intended direction of fall. Thanks for re-posting that thread. Just read a few pages this AM and will get back to the rest later. Am frequently struck by the quality of information, experience, and ideas here. I sincerely hope there is a plan and $ in place to preserve it for future generations.

I need to learn the tricks of searching back info better too.

 

[Jubal]

I should have referred directly to the picture in post 18. I understand barber chair. How you avoid being injured by the tree that is hung up after cutting the tree that is supporting it . https://www.masterblasterhome.com/showthread.php?11208-Barber-chair/page2
The archives are a wealth of information. I need to put techniques to practice so I can remember them. Thanks,Burnham

 

[Bermy]

Quite simply DON'T cut the supporting tree.
Find another method to get the hung up tree OUT of the supporting one. Rolling, winching etc...

I'm sure there are folks here who have the depth of experience to do what you'd like safely, but by and large it is not a recommended course of action.

 

[sawinredneck]

Yeah, cutting the supporting tree is NOT the answer! I had to go clean up a mess like that once! He hung one tree, cut the supporting tree and hung them both in yet another tree! Then moved on and hung two more trees after that!
The safest way is to mechanically move the hung tree, winch, skidder, rope and a truck, whatever you have!
The method I ended up having to use that day is dangerous in itself. It's called "fence posting". You cut lengths off the stump, while avoiding getting the bar stuck, trying to get out of the way quickly and not being afraid to drop the saw and run! You keep cutting until finally the tree does a 180 flip or slides out of the tree it's hung in. Fun stuff and a good way to wake up dead if you aren't on top of it!
Did I mention trying to find a mechanical way of dealing with it yet?

 

[treebilly]

I'll agree that using a machine is the best way if that option is available. I never like fence posting and try to aviod doing it. Usually the saw gets pulled to the dirt at least once in those situations. And most times I'm moving pretty quick when it drops.

 

[gf beranek]

I've hung up a fair share of trees through my career. Some were easy to remedy. Others I walked away from. Not worth the risk. Knowing the difference is, of course, the key.

 

[Altissimus]

....which is why we try to so hard to be accurate , realistic and NOT create problems...

 

[gf beranek]

In thinning young stands of conifer, and in many select-cuts, hang-ups are part of your everyday work experience. In clear-cuts hang-ups are seldom as much of a problem. Simple logic there.

Most of the problems with hanging up trees in select-cuts today, least where I live, is the foresters don't allow the fallers the prerogative to make their own decisions. In the old days if a tree was in the way we would cut it to avoid a hang-up. Doing the same today a faller can be reprimanded for cutting an un-marked tree.

It goes against the grain to make your job more difficult and dangerous than it already is. I can't lump all foresters in the same light though. Some a faller can work with. In the meantime it's not getting any easier for the faller.

 

[Tucker943]

I've hung too many trees up while doing selective logging. How do you trip the standing tree safely? You don't. It's dangerous. Making it safe is sort of out of the question. Using your gut and your brains to decide whether to do it is key. My opinion is make good and damn sure your footing and escape route are good and try and judge just how much pressure the hanger is putting on the supporter. That will determine a lot of how the standing tree behaves when cut. Bore cutting is wise tool too. Lets you nip and go. I'd much rather not have to stand there and keep the saw in the cut. Judgement and experience will go a long ways in getting home alive. It's be nice to fence post the stuck tree down to safety but the forester and landowner won't have good things to say about those pieces of wood you made.

 

[Burnham]

If you absolutely HAVE TO drop the holding tree, bore the backcut, hit the release strip, and run like a rabbit. Take your saw about 10 feet, drop that boat anchor and go, go, go. Classic escape path is 45 degrees off from behind the lay.

Better by far is to salami cut the hung tree, choosing the angle that puts the base in the opposite direction that your analysis tells you offers the greatest likelihood to shift the hung top free. Might have to do this several times. Nothing but a thing ...normal crap fallers need to be able to do.

 

[FireFighterZero]

Okay, speaking of things a crap faller should know, what is a salami cut?

 

[Tucker943]

Fence posting. Diagonal cuts up/down through the wood to keep dropping the tree straight downwards. Which has its own risks too. The standing portion at some point may want to go over in god knows which direction.

 

[Tucker943]

Picture the tree leaning at an angle and laying into another tree. Making matching snap cuts straight up and downward. Leaves a pile of pieces on the ground that are cut at an angle. Pressure and tension is critical here, and so is watching your feet. I'd rather that tree not slide down 5 feet and spear my feet into the ground.

 

[Burnham]

OK Jim, I shouda put in a comma or some such punctuation, methinks .

But anyway, a salami cut is an angled slice through the stem, usually with a bit of angled undercut prior to keep bar pinch at bay. The angle is usually from left to right, or right to left, relative to the lean of the stem.

For example, if I think the hung top will most easily dislodge to the right of the tree it's hung in, I'll salami the hung stem from right downward to the left, so the base will drop off to the left, helping the top go to the right. Maybe need to do that more than once...but eventually the base will walk far enough to the left that the top will roll out to the right.

 

[Tucker943]

B, are you speaking strictly about conifers? I'm curious. In eastern hardwoods with tops that can firmly intertwine, I've found it difficult to manipulate the sliding stem substantially to one side or the other. Not to say I haven't had any luck, but it seems in my rookie hands, those large hardwood limbs can make one heck of a lock with each other.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Like a French cut in cooking but not from the side.
2 cuts...
Like a snap cut but diagonal. Also consider the bind.

 

[Burnham]

Sure they can Chris, and with a conifer hung in a conifer, it's more likely to be able to figure out a direction that you can encourage rollout.

Even if there is little likelihood to make that happen, I still say that walking the hung stem to the side will bring things to movement more readily than just walking the stem down straight at the holding tree.

Now if all you end up with is a hung tree that won't move any direction at all and does not drop down, then you cut the base up to as high as is feasible, then fell the holding tree...accounting, of course, for the weight and direction that weight is exerting on the holding tree. Now that situation is a crisis, no doubt...a sweat inducing spot to be in. Having some iron at hand is a blessing then.

 

[FireFighterZero]

So I watched a video just now of a dead tree being cut out of a live tree. They just cut chunks out of the leaner until it was pretty straight and muscled it out by hand.

But, I gather you are talking about manipulating the butt in the oposite direction that the top is hung in order to lever the top out? Sorta like bending a knee or elbow?

 

[Burnham]

Sorta like pulling the base to one side so the top falls free to the other side.

 

[FireFighterZero]

Gotcha! If that does not work?

When we took the S212 class, they told us that they were people in Boise that were considering making snags and hangers the realm of a new class of faller, above "C certifier" fallers.

 

[Burnham]

As I said, fell the holding tree. Not for the inexperienced, not the faint of heart, not the less than fleet of foot.

Dropping a hazard tree that just fell of it's own accord and hung in a nearby stem, I've handled many like that. I have never had to do so but once from my own hung fell, but more than a few clearing up after another's poor work. Not to say I never hung a tree . Most often it was firewood thieves who failed in their attempt at felling a roadside tree. I'd get the call then.

Jim, I think that advanced "C" class might have merit, but the trick is finding some way to test for it. I ended up taking on, not all for sure, but many on my Forest. I'm not sure how that came to pass...just a case where I managed to survive a few, so the phone kept ringing and I learned something from each one, and the rep gets built.

But to train someone to that level of skill, intuition, and frankly, brass balls?? I don't know how that could really be done.

 

[MasterBlaster]

not the less than fleet of foot.

Oh hail yea!