Rope

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #176
Silent Partner: Interesting 'new' rope toy using Clove Hitch on centrifugal clutch brake:
rockexotica.com/media/wysiwyg/rockexotica/tn/silent-partner-tech-notice.pdf

For local endpoint/climbing, says NOT remote apss-thru/rigging usage (intended).
>>and bodyWeight ranges w/o impact...
Also like in manual:
>>You cannot learn to solo climb by reading this manual.
>>We cannot, however, teach you to solo climb over the phone...
(sounds familiar in several different aspects)
 
Last edited:
Looks highly geared towards rock climbing. In that context, I don't know if it's cool or not. I know zero about rock climbing. Generally, I'm distrustful of mechanical devices, especially if there's hidden "magic" that can wear in non obvious ways, and is difficult to inspect.
 
It's 100 percent designed for rock climbing, hence the name silent partner (your belay guy).
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #179
Sorry, got distracted here. And this is rock climbing tool.
Personally, i was focusing on how the tool mechanically magnified the continuous direction, roll/walk of Clove.
Not really recommending for tree climbing, but also warning not designed for remote belay/rigging(where might be most likely tree use)
Below would be extension of rope rigidities study like in post #175(prev.page this thread)
Simply, the rope tension gives a rigidity, to match against other rope part
greater rigidity/tension over lesser sandwiched to host gives 'nipping' type functions,
>>while lesser tension/rigidity over greater to host gives more of a 'firmer pasting of frictions' to host for greater tension reduction.
.
Looking at a Clove as opposing HHs has helped guide many to forming the Clove properly.(which i shy from)
BUT, in force trace of utility of functions,
>>watching if the lesser/softer WE(Working End) serves over or under the greater/more rigid ropeParts
We can diagnose 1 paste, and even (pressure wise) 1 pinch/nip/hitch
>>but the pinch/nip/hitch is softened a bit towards the paste side
>>as is NOT sandwiching the WE against the host with full force
The radial position does give the 2nd crossing pinch close to full sine of arc + some cosine
clove-forces-and-radial-positions-standard.png

.
The only way to get a top Nip from the Clove formation is to ballast the other leg
>>else the crossing rotates from top to the side of the imposed pull.
In this position, neither crossing gives nip/pinch/hitch type function
>>SParts (linear input)as the most tensioned/rigid parts, can't be pinched/nip to HH fn(computerese for function)
>>for it can only be crossed by lesser, later rope tensions to 'paste' SParts firmer to host NOT pinch as to nip/hitch
Even tho is at greatest radial position to exert the ropeTensions to 'express' those forces
>>onto the leads from SParts.
(Nip not really needed, as each 'Bitter End' is but an EXTERNALLY ballast to secure,
>>NOT dependent on internal knot structure to give Nip as securing ballast against input force imposed.
clove-forces-and-radial-positions-top.png

.
Making a Clove on load side (or rotating normal Clove to this position)
>>places the crossings off of the host, giving greatest deformity to SPart as Cow, Muenter, Prussik etc. do
>>also gives least nipping, in fact can use on carabiner(sometimes 2 carabiners w/opposing gates for softer rope arc/bend)
to lower a light load.
clove-forces-and-radial-positions-low.png
 
Last edited:
Silent Partner: Interesting 'new' rope toy using Clove Hitch on centrifugal clutch brake:
rockexotica.com/media/wysiwyg/rockexotica/tn/silent-partner-tech-notice.pdf

As Tree09 & lxskllr mentioned, Silent Partners were self belay devices for rope solo rock climbing. I used to use one when I wanted to climb alone but still pretend that I was safer than if I'd free soloed (I was never brave or good enough to actually free solo 5th class routes). Rock Exotica stopped producing them several years ago and their value skyrocketed. The list price was just under $300 from Rock Exotica when they stopped production - a couple of years later one famously sold on Ebay for $1,500 or so. I think the main reason folks wanted them as opposed to other self belay devices for rock climbing was that they were reputed to catch falls even if the climber inverted and was upside down when caught. I never fell on mine while climbing, but I did crudely test it by jumping out of a tree for about 6' (10' up with a back up dynamic line). Worked fine that one time!

I can't offer any real insight into the function. What I recall is that you tied a clove hitch around the "capstan". One end went to your anchor at the bottom of the pitch and the other to loops of line you kept at your harness. As you progressed and placed protection (cams, nuts, etc). you'd release line from your harness after clipping into the protection. The capstan would spin and allow line to pass through unless you fell. When the capstan spun fast (a fall) it would lock, the clove hitch would tighten and the Silent Partner would arrest the fall. The SP was attached to your harness. There are 75 or more threads on the old climbing forum, Super Topo, about Silent Partners, their use and rarity. SuperTopo shut down a couple of years back, but I think you could reach the archived threads here.

Those were the days.......

Howard
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #181
Thanx!
Actually posted the previous Clove examination (post#179)on knot site as extension of post also of this thread #175 about greater/lesser rope RIGIDITY crossings/commandings and rope climbers gave back the Silent Partner as a working example/ application of the Clove shown to theories given.
i stay with the rigidity X tension examination,
>>even tho in same rope; rigidity differences are totally tension caused , so tension a more obvious, simpler choice of usual view
>>to then expand to/link in different rope types and sizes in friction hitch grabs to host we use
>>and there finding tension not completely commanding this, but rather the rigidity factor X tension of the imposing rope/force displacement.
>> that then is used by clock position from linear input / Standing Part , to then converted to arc control
Tracing as rigidity X tension links the 2 topics (same rope/different ropes) as a continuous, over-riding rule,
>>contiguous principle across, not separate points
>>so things L-earned in 1 reference can be shared/should be tested, confirmed in the other reference.
>>kinda redundant factor in single rope/matching size and materials; but more inclusive to larger, over-ruling picture/bigger encompassing sea
.
i try to seek and often show, this cross-verifying/larger engulfing principle examination strategy in these force things .
>>extension of Ancient Greeks taking this similar thing used by cooks, merchants, engineers, farmers, scientists etc. and distilling this thing we call math from them all !
>>sharing the lessons back and forth enriched each, as the bigger picture was extruded/drawn out of the larger , collective experience set
>>logic evolved directly from this math defining/discovery
>> and much of sciences, for math is the language of differences and patterns, w/o math not any true science as we know it i think!
.
 
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #182
This post shows by common clock 'tics' mnemonic Tangent forces that occur in rigging, knotting, pulling,animating etc.
Being able to view this shows how much 'respect' to give something by how much 'authority' it has, and the 'cost' of changing it;
in these separate, but really redundant forms; as we scrape this down to it's schematic of forces skeleton.
tangents-on-the-clock_1.png

Tangent table allows you to go straight from Load force to side force
>>usually must calc load divided by cosine = line tension, then line tension X sine to get side force
So, a QUICK tangent table when have some idea of Load force/weight makes things quite easy, skipping a step
>> Tangent does this by simply being = sine divided by cosine to do the math in 1 move, especially in the rounded numbers at the clock tics!
(if knew line tension could shortcut just as well to multiply by sine, but load more likely to be known or guessed, than line tension)
tangents-on-the-clock_2.png

As all the clock metaphors this works best in the first 'month' in any of the 4 'seasons' of the clock
>>original Babylon clock made from star rotations showed months (12-1 etc) 3 at a time to make a 'season' quadrant
>>circles are simply the same, 4 quadrants of 90degree rules , that can be broken to 3 divisions each(of 30 degrees just as days): extreme changes sine, moderate changes both, extreme changes cosine to make up the 3 'months' of a 90degree 'season'.
>>these 'months' of the each 90 degree arc, fall neatly into 12-1,1-2,2-3 etc. on the clock, just as calendar months do!
The clock again for tangents (like sine and cosine)gives the degree markings, and the number scale gives number mnemonic (most accuracy in first 'month'/somewhat into first half of the 'season' as most used anyway)
tangents-on-the-clock_3.png

Thumbrules by nature and name allow some err, but these clock rules stick pretty close to actual degrees, especially in the first 'month' 12-1 of each 'season'
>>Original Babylon clock was also calendar of 4 seasons of 3mos ea. 12mos. of nights expanded from 12hrs of a single night
>>Derived from stars circling position 1x/yr. so 365 rounded to 360degrees for some inherent err anyway(~1.3%)... (so scientists, engineers and cartoonists etc. use radians instead)
radian is ~57 degrees: the point were the arc of the circle = radius, as most accurate science. So that PI x Radian = 180, or 2x PI x Radian =360 circle
for backyard, on the job guesses, i stick with degrees, using clock metaphor to simplify positions by clock tics/hashes, and values by clock numbers associated.
.
Also, here; 44% becomes 4x, then plus 10% of that product for total percentage , perhaps more quickly.
 
Last edited:
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #183
Setting rope pivot(primary rope contact point, hitch point if simple connection) close to CoG to command it more; and allow more pre-tightening of rope at same slight drift down angle
>>start with super tight rope, so light downward drift completes pre-tightening
>>as also AUTOMATES precise matching pull upwards
hitchpoint-choice-gives-rope-stretch-and-command-over-cog.png

.
In same scenario, pick best rope angle path for needs; then use saw to press down load into trap
>>when floating more on rope, only lightly on hinge, feed/allow with hinge into turn
i prefer some angle of relief, not just pure sideways
>>limb more greedily follows path of relief calling to it
>>i follow(ed) roof angle as guide
>>trying to get the feel of roof having forcefield, and limb could go no further, just skate/ride down on forcefield (that is rally rope)
.
inducing-better-rope-angle-with-saw-angles-that-complement.png

.
Net forces are turn only from rope hitchpoint leveraged against hinge
>>as downward force of limb and upward pull of rope ballast each other out of equation.
>>revealing only the remainder of sidewards force of rope, spiriting limb around...
angled-rope-turn-force-as-also-holding-up-load.png
 
Last edited:
Howard 70: Where in New Mexico do you live sir? I lived in the Pecos wilderness near Santa Fe, for about three and a half years.
 
Silent partner has been around for awhile: "The Silent Partner has been around for quite some time. The device was created by Mark Blanchard (who also builds guitars), and the patent was granted in 1989. Rock Exotica handled the manufacturing until Wren Industries took over production in the late '90s. Around 2008, Wren Industries was sold and the new owners were not interested in producing self-belay devices. At that time, Rock Exotica took over production of the Silent Partner once again."
Sounds like they might be hard to find these days... Rock Exotica Silent Partner Sells for $1,400 on eBay (Updated) - https://www.climbing.com/news/rock-exotica-silent-partner-sells-for-1400-on-ebay/
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #186
Thanx, thought remember seeing it before and the principle helped my knot understandings greatly.
 
Last edited:
Howard 70: Where in New Mexico do you live sir? I lived in the Pecos wilderness near Santa Fe, for about three and a half years.
Hello Jed:

Sorry for the late reply. We're a bit SE of Belen next to the Rio Grande. Not nearly as nice as the Peco Wilderness! You must have some great tales about those three + years....

Howard Snell
 
Sure do... I got lost out there once chasing some cows off my landowner’s property. Wow, I’ll never forget that one, boy.

Belen eh??... I’ve heard a lot a really nice stuff about Belen. Pretty sure I’ve been through there.
 
Wow, indeed.

I liked the brief discussion of inside tail bowline vs outside tail. Most tree guys afaik tie outside tail and I understood that was slightly inferior to inside tail, but this guy refutes that re the app cited.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #194
Most books show tail in,
Extending on SheetBend tails to same side, as Square Knot has.
Old theories talk of tail out could hang and invert Bowline to slipknot.
Could be something of more consideration in Natural 3strand in heavier, stiffer lines.
>> But was argued even when ABoK was being written.
.
knudeKnoggin has long argued against this, and mite be one of best knot brains around.
Personally , I put 3x180 arcs in each to make Double Bowline or SheetBend ,
rendering in/out as less consequential.
i take Bowline to DBY then also.
>> But favor by inversion , so less predictable on if tail falls in or out.
.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #197
Other Fine Points of theories in ABoK
A few times sprinkled thru ABoK lessons like computer Easter Eggs is the concept of on a smaller host a Round Turn(RT at IGKT) distributes the wear more evenly, than a grab around host with a single Turn, especially in a stiffer line that lends itself less well to host to start.
>>as a strength and wear consideration, especially in remote, uninspectable, repeated re-use system logically
Also the reference to 'Double Bearing', finding that to specifically be the 2 180degree arcs on top of hook, to most opposing side of host from the imposed pull of the loading.(and for me Dbl.Bearing brings it from Single Bearing for Single Dimension load pull to multi dimension possible bearing/support)
.
There is another knot fine point buried in ABoK lessons, just said in passing almost as example Rolling Hitch t(r)ailer vs. 2xHH
(defines as separate utility functions in a side by side)
>>but consistent to other mechanics found thru-out book, but this point not raised again..
2nd pic does have another Turn (dbl.RT), but the text specifically focuses on the finish, that just doesn't jam up into the hook
>>that would shear across the loaded leg more
>>also as Friction Hitch, could also give 2nd route for force flow/shared; as also deformed Standing Part (SPart) main support less against hook.
This softer deformity , cutting less harshly across SPart support column , does in trade , grip hook less
>>that the final Turn might be prescribed to make up for in lesson#1884 / 2nd pic shown below.
tail-stabilizer.png
(a becket is an eye, a toggle is a removable pin to 'toggle' the release of the knot/load being pinned together)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #198
Also, to tails in vs. out in Sheet Bend and Bowline bases,
forgot to say/ quote myself,
That for tail in on Bowline, as for same side tails in Sheet Bend
>> both ends in Sheet get sandwiched between the firmest rope parts Standing Parts(SParts)
But. for tails out on Bowline, different side tails in Sheet Bend
>> only the lock hitch side is between the firmest SParts, but placed more squarely there
(while the end of bight side is not nipped in the highest pressure AND rigidity sandwich).
.
When i made utility eye2eye slings for ground use, dragging, tie down, extensions , pulley anchor sling(truck pull redirect thru pulleys even into backyard etc.) etc.
Made DBY each end, Bitter Ends brightly taped hard to SPart.
Tape color always contrasts rope color and each end different color tape ( just like did ALL rope ends).
.
Always visualizing SPart as trailer tongue , best squarely pulled into knot carriage of arcs on host, then tailing ballast to keep rest of knot fair. But should not deform knot carriage, but rather keep rear end carriage square too. The tape on old 1/2" pieces of arbo ropes seem to lend this utility even.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #199
Leveraged Line Force supreme!
Minimal vertical column of support against the vertical gravity load.
Line trys to accommodate if strong enough and just load more force to do the job.
This creates lots of side force.
Greater force leveraging can induce straw that breaks camel's back all at once.
(as buddy sits in chair under it ; wow dude, ya think anyone will notice?)
Mom is gonna be pissed, and just wait until yo'Dad gets home!
(slacker line over pool pulls down roof)


If the 'rope' was the weakest point, it would have overloaded like fuse and saved rest of system(roof support).
non-malleables(brick,mortar, rock etc.) don't take tension well
(wood take tension loads 30% less strength than compression loads , then later found steel shows as equal tension/compression strengths)
>>stone pillar has Zer0 support against side pull except own weight and compression rear TENSION front.
Thus, necessity being a real mother, people had to discover arc secrets for stone/rock bridge
>>converts force to all compression that the non-malleables can handle.
Rope arcs do similar, only in tension direction on the same geometry, but still arc magic.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top