Oh..I get it... res arbo experiences some forestry!

Willard, I gotta call you on the natural lean towards the southeast thing, mang. I have walked through forests that don't fall into the category you describe. There are just too many variables. If phototropism meant that the tree would lean towards the preeminence of light in the trees location relative to the equator then I would agree. But I don't. What if the valley in which the trees are located has a peak to the east of them? Then the predominant light would come from the south to south west. I'm just not sure I buy it yet, but I'm taking my boy for a hike tommorrow and will keep my eyes open.
 
Yes guys go out there and open your eyes.:O
Where you really notice it is in a stand of conifers on level ground, just look up and see where the tops are leaning to. Single stem decurrent decidious do the same.

Thats the difference between arborists and loggers. As a faller when I was assigned a new block of timber the first tree I cut was in the south east corner. With the average lean towards the SE I worked my strips face east to west with trees felled on a angle to the SE for ease of skidding for my skidder operater. The landing setup in the SW corner. What really helped us in winter for top production was the average wind direction was from the NW , hardly ever carried a wedge.

Willard.
 
Yup...a rare condition in my part of the world. Rare enough to make Willard's assertion just noise from a flatlander :D.
 
:lol:Come on Burnham lots of timber is logged in the PNW on flat ground.
It surprises me how many people who cut trees for a living don't know the natural lean rule. I guess I was lucky to have hand falled for a living .
On a moose hunting trip through a cut over on a cloudy day, just looking at the stumps I can see what direction SW is.
Now Burnham go out in your front yard, take a look at your trees and report back here what direction they are leaning to.

Willard.
 
Ok...just as an example, the trees along the western boundary, between the field and the road, lean in multiple directions. The ones on the eastern side of the strip lean sort of east, the ones on the western side lean sort of west...towards the open ground. The interior trees have no consistently observable lean at all, except for the one that was slightly root sprung by a SW wind 20 years ago and leans NE.

Willard, I think your rule has so many exceptions created by local conditions that it fails as a rule. It simply isn't the case here.

Not enough of the 1.25 million acre Mt. Hood NF is flat, to even talk about. Not enough of the rest of the Cascade Range, or the Coast Range, either. Many, many stands on north facing steep slopes exibit lean downhill, north...another example that doesn't follow your rule.

Up in your country, edge of the prairie I guess, I couldn't say, having never been there...maybe so. But we can't take a rule that holds true in one geographic area and claim it to be universal.
 
Burnham said:
Up in your country, edge of the prairie I guess, I couldn't say, having never been there...maybe so. But we can't take a rule that holds true in one geographic area and claim it to be universal.
Click to expand...
Well Burnham, lets say then we can't take the PNW geographic area to be universal , on this planet there is alot more timber standing on flat ground then there is uneven ground. BTW I have seen Doug fir on level ground leaning towards the S-SE while in Centralia Wash.

Anyone else around the world want to comment on the direction of your trees "natural lean".

Willard.
 
I've never seen or heard of this phenomenon either. What do you think creates it Willard? Are you saying that the trees tend to lean in the direction the sun comes most directly from? If so, wouldn't this change with lattitude? Or are you saying the Earth's rotational forces cause this as in the Coriolis effect? If so, science says this effect should not be noticeable on a scale this small. Quote from Wikipiedia: "Because the Earth completes only one rotation per day, the Coriolis force is quite small, and its effects generally become noticeable only for motions occurring over large distances and long periods of time, such as large-scale movement of air in the atmosphere or water in the ocean." Regardless though, it seems like there are so many factors that affect lean (such as slope / soil creep, light / shade, wind, roots, soil moisture, bedrock, etc) that it would be really surprising if all trees leaned the same way. I must be missing something though or else a experienced logger like you would not believe in this. Teach me please!
 
Bounce said:
I've never seen or heard of this phenomenon either. What do you think creates it Willard? Are you saying that the trees tend to lean in the direction the sun comes most directly from? If so, wouldn't this change with lattitude? Or are you saying the Earth's rotational forces cause this as in the Coriolis effect? If so, science says this effect should not be noticeable on a scale this small. Quote from Wikipiedia: "Because the Earth completes only one rotation per day, the Coriolis force is quite small, and its effects generally become noticeable only for motions occurring over large distances and long periods of time, such as large-scale movement of air in the atmosphere or water in the ocean." Regardless though, it seems like there are so many factors that affect lean (such as slope / soil creep, light / shade, wind, roots, soil moisture, bedrock, etc) that it would be really surprising if all trees leaned the same way. I must be missing something though or else a experienced logger like you would not believe in this. Teach me please!
Click to expand...

Man how can I teach a wise ass like you? You got all this information at your finger tips. WTF could a experienced logger teach a well informed arborist like yourself.

Willard
 
:lol:
I fear our wimpy little winters don't hold a candle to your Manitoba deep freeze.

You are a good sport, Willard. :thumbup:



Well, I was thinking so, but your reply to Bounce has a bit of edge to it.
 
Last edited:
Burnham said:
Well, I was thinking so, but your reply to Bounce has a bit of edge to it.
Click to expand...

I know we don't want to offend our peers do we?
Lets just say my tone was self inflected by frustration trying to get a point across to a smart ass.

There is that better?:?

Willard:D
 
Sean is by reputation and my personal experience, an entirely pleasant, intelligent, and knowlegable fellow...not much given to smart ass posts. I can't speak for him, but do think perhaps you have misinterpreted his attitide.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #43
Now boys, it's my pool and if you can't play nice, I'll phone your mummies to come take you home!:P
 
I'm not trying to start a fight, Willard, and I certainly understand that you have a great deal of woods walking in your past. But, I still resist the idea, but I also resist the idea that most trees in the world grow on level ground...how could anyone possibly know that? There are simply to many variables to make either of those assertions. I don't want to offend you, I have a great deal of respect for you, but I disagree. Just because you have spent a great deal of time in the woods, doesn't mean we should count your observations as gospel. While I am mostly a residential arborist, I sure get out into the backcountry as much as I can, and I have never noticed the effect you describe. I will certainly keep an open eye and mind on my future trips, however.

Bermy, good stuff getting out there are cutting some trees...please don't phone my mom, she'll ground me!!
 
Sorry Bermy for messing up your thread, seems like a few stiffs here from the PNW are the only ones who are contradicting me. I guess I should have said "mountainous ground" rather then "uneven ground" seeing thats where their mindset is.
I've been all over this world and anyone who hasn't just looking at a globe or a atlas world map can see there is alot less trees or vegetation on mountainous terrain [or "uneven ground" to a prairie boy like me] The Boreal forest which is the worlds largest forest straight around the northern hemishere of the planet is mostly on level ground and I worked it here in Canada.
Here I'm trying to get a point across to guys who take a single tree down one at a time from the top down in a urban setting and lean means nothing to them.
I was hoping someone who has production felled trees for a living would chip in here and relate about the SW lean.
Seems I had more positive feedback from AS a few years back when I brought this same question up there. One guy was a faller from Oregon and his user name started with a B.
Guys who could work a straight face on a strip of timber and work with the lean.

Willard.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #46
Aw, thanks for the make-up...its all good, well debated differences of opinion are highly valued here.
Group hug...Butch, where's the picture?
 
Desktop, anyone???

2akmref.jpg


:evil:
 
Willard, Denmark is too small for the trees to have a common lean.
We are surrounded by water and only in Jutland ( Jylland) does the wind blow from the same side with any consistency.

That said, I've noticed that some stands of conifers have a common len. but one stand may lean to the east, another to the north.
Small country, small stands, not enough consistency.

I always walked through a stand, checking for lean in my pulp days, before starting to fell.
 
stig said:
Willard, Denmark is too small for the trees to have a common lean.
We are surrounded by water and only in Jutland ( Jylland) does the wind blow from the same side with any consistency.

That said, I've noticed that some stands of conifers have a common len. but one stand may lean to the east, another to the north.
Small country, small stands, not enough consistency.

I always walked through a stand, checking for lean in my pulp days, before starting to fell.
Click to expand...
Thanks Stig for your positive input.:) and reference to a "common lean"!
I knew someone out there could help out here. I know in Denmark you don't have any of the Boreal forest or Taiga like we have here in Canada , but it does run through northern Norway and straight across Russia, even Japan has a part of it. The Boreal forest is the largest forest system in the world.
When you worked in Norway were you in that forest system? I think that is where like here in Canada you would get that common SE lean.
Any members on here from Sweden , Finland , other parts of Canada, northern eastern US who can respond to this?
Sorry there is no Boreal forest in the PNW besides a little in Alaska.

Willard.
 
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