Mastering the Humbolt notch?

[SkwerI]

Without looking, I'd say that he made the snipe cut in order to allow the falling tree to continue in a straight path with less liklihood of being forced to twist or kick off to one side.

 

[JIML]

Yeah, I think thats what he did in the video, kinda different. No way am I going to question that guys work though!

 

[gf beranek]

That looked like a pretty sound tree. Makes me wonder why it was coming down. The tree ferns were pretty.

That little scarf Graeme took of the butt of the tree, but the shot didn't last long enought to see it completed, well it is one way of squaring the edge for the tree to meet the stump, instead of a illregular protrusion.

You got to use your imagination and visualize the two edges meeting. A good square edge or .....

Often debatable whether it's really needed or not, especially in a wide open layout, but for the guy doing the work.... it's his call!

 

[MasterBlaster]

Sometimes doing it just makes me feel better.

 

[tblough]

Here's an idea from an utter newbie, so take if for what it's worth.

First, make your flat cut using the saw sights. then stick a strip of cardboard (6" wide, by 3' long or so) in the cut, all the way to the back so that it sticks out on the far side. This is going to be a "sight aid".

Following Burnham's recommendation, line up and dog in on the near side, and then sight the tip of the bar to line up with the edge of the cardboard which is sticking out on the far side of the tree. Now when you swing the saw through, your cuts should line up perfectly on the far side.

I wish I had a saw and a tree to try this. Anyone game?

 

[Stumper]

Tsk tsk Tom, i am a true trad faller and eschew sights. Instinctive all the way man!










For all those who are going WTH? There is ongoing nitpicking on traditional archery forums from those who want to feel superior for not using sights on their bows compared to those who ridicule "instinctive shooters" for their lack of precision etc,etc, Typical human foolishness. FWIW I don't use sights on my bows but don't think that using them is morally inferior. I do use the sights on a saw occassionally...but on small trees it is pretty easy to line things up without them. And Tom's idea would likely prove very helpful to a beginner.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Use the Force, Luke.

 

[GASoline71]

When I was first learning the Humboldt I couldn't get my cuts to line up. I am better at it now. Just when you think you have enough angle in your bar for the undercut to match the other side on the gunning cut... tip the bar a little more, and check that your bar tip is not hanging low... trust me... it helps.

Gary

 

[JIML]

I cut one stub today, not big but I got my cuts to line up good. Cut my angled cut first then the flat one. Lined up good first try. 12" locust maybe. I may try doing my angled cut first, when I was learning the conventional I would do the angle first then the flat. Now its a pain in the arse to do it that way cause the piece of wood ends up sitting on the bar when the cuts finished.

 

[Jamin Mayer]

Here's an idea from an utter newbie, so take if for what it's worth.

First, make your flat cut using the saw sights. then stick a strip of cardboard (6" wide, by 3' long or so) in the cut, all the way to the back so that it sticks out on the far side. This is going to be a "sight aid".

Following Burnham's recommendation, line up and dog in on the near side, and then sight the tip of the bar to line up with the edge of the cardboard which is sticking out on the far side of the tree. Now when you swing the saw through, your cuts should line up perfectly on the far side.

I wish I had a saw and a tree to try this. Anyone game?

:what:

I can't visualize what you wrote. But, if you could get it on video, you could post that too.

 

[Jamin Mayer]

I may try doing my angled cut first, when I was learning the conventional I would do the angle first then the flat. Now its a pain in the arse to do it that way cause the piece of wood ends up sitting on the bar when the cuts finished.

I do the angled cut first in a conventional notch all the time. If the wood is big I just use a wedge to prevent the bar being pinched when I do my flat cut.

The best advantage of doing your angled cut first (for the conventional notch) is the fact that you can see through your angled cut to watch the tip of your bar. This way you don't bypass your angled cut and you make a perfect notch 9 times out of 10.

Anyway, this thread is about the Humboldt...Sorry.

 

[sotc]

if i want to check i do kinda like tom, ill start my cut, set the brake and go put my finger or a stick in the far corner then look down the plane of the bar to see if it intersects the corner.

 

[Cedarkerf]

The way I learned was to make the gunning cut first. Had a hard time getting the angle right for the lower cut. Made some lower cuts with the saw paralel to the gunning cut at the botum of the cut. Gives you a chance to visualize the angles you need when you just rotate on the dawgs. Prolly not explained very well.

 

[GASoline71]

You explained it pretty well Brian... I always do the gunning cut first. It wouldn't be called a "gunning cut" if you did it second...

Another reason to have big dogs on fallin' saws... it's where they really come in to play... "dog in" and rotate the saw on an axis (maybe pivot point would be better to explain) from one "corner" to the other. keep your tip up on that undercut...

Gary

 

[Angus]

I could be completely wrong here, but I thought the Humbolt is used when the size of the remaining wedge is quite heavy. With the lower cut being on the angle, once the wedge has fallen it tends to just slide out enough to grab, or if lucky - onto the ground.
Are there any other reasons for use the Humbolt?

 

[MasterBlaster]

To make a flat butt cut, important on the big logs for millage.

 

[squisher]

I think it's mainly for production falling, atleast as I've known it. You cut a humboldt and you cheat on your step and keep it small and you end up with a flush flat but which doesn't need to have a snipe cut off of it. You're supposed to leave a two inch 'step' but any buckerman I've ever worked with would cry bloody murder if he had to nock the snipe off every butt. The pie sliding out easier is a added bonus for sure.

 

[Dave Shepard]

Seems like it is a very important cut for keeping a tree on a steep hill. Wouldn't a conventional cut provide a "ramp" to send the tree over the stump? Burnham, Jerry?


Dave

 

[Angus]

To make a flat butt cut, important on the big logs for millage.

You cut a humboldt and you cheat on your step and keep it small and you end up with a flush flat but which doesn't need to have a snipe cut off of it

doh! of course! I was told about this just recently - I'd never made the connection!
thanks.

 

[squisher]

Seems like it is a very important cut for keeping a tree on a steep hill. Wouldn't a conventional cut provide a "ramp" to send the tree over the stump? Burnham, Jerry?


Dave

Certainly, but you only fall uphill around here if you absolutely have to. 90% of it you lay crossways on the hill (remember I was a yarder guy so there was always a hill) and the humboldt is used for the flat butt.

 

[gf beranek]

Seems like it is a very important cut for keeping a tree on a steep hill. Wouldn't a conventional cut provide a "ramp" to send the tree over the stump? Burnham, Jerry?


Dave

Yes, it can in deed do that, but not everytime.

Squish is right about laying the trees side hill. It's too much work climbing up and down the hill to limb and buck every tree you cut. Of course on the edge of waterways you don't always have that option.

 

[xtremetrees]

I read on some other tree site how the humbolt notch has 2 advantages when working aloft. 1.) It decreases spar movement and 2.) It allow for butt of log placement closer to the stump.
So, I began trying it aloft 4 or 5 yrs ago and was hooked. I used it almost exclusively for a while I did find it easier to cut meaning I didn't have to cut into the top of my notch by raising my arms high, I could just cut underneath and the notch is done. Honestly thou I'm not sure about the humbolt decreasing spar/stubb movement. I would say it should be used when your top may foul in adjecent tree and come back on ya like Rumi says. I do like the idea of not haveing to lift my arms higher than my head when working aloft as this can quickly lead to fatigue over a days worth of cutting err something like that. On lateral limbs I almost always cut humbolt just because the ease of it.

 

[Burnham]

Seems like it is a very important cut for keeping a tree on a steep hill. Wouldn't a conventional cut provide a "ramp" to send the tree over the stump? Burnham, Jerry?


Dave

Either way you have a ramp, Dave. With a conventional it's on the end of the log and with a humbolt it's on the stump. It's my personal opinion that the humbolt's ramp (on the stump) is more likely to cause you grief than the conventional's ramp (on the log), but I'm sure that's open for disagreement.

So in either case you want to encorporate stump shot into your felling cuts by placing the back cut some higher than the intersection of the two face cuts. Squish was talking about shading this...trying to end up with a flush butt without having to trim.

Understandable why fallers would chose to, but doing so involves more risk to the cutter on every single tree.

 

[Dave Shepard]

Thanks Jerry and Burnham. It's great to be able to discuss this stuff here, it really helps to get an understanding of the different techniques.


Dave

 

[squisher]

I will add that what I mentioned about leaving a small step so as to keep a flat butt is definetly not recommended and around here you can get fined for it. I could see no reason to be doing this or trying to do this in residential treework. And I'm in no way recommending that people do this.

I beleive I've covered my ass sufficiently now.