F
Frans
Guest
does anyone have clear pictures of this knot?
Spideys web site does not load that paticular knot....
Spideys web site does not load that paticular knot....
T
TheTreeSpyder
Guest
Sorry, i got your PM'ses but couldn't get it figured out at first, and have been busy. The ideal use for this Jacked version; would be to take a sidewards pull; perpendicular to the Standing Part; as in the remote release false crotch(where you float a pulley from ground; without having to incur the possibility of the 2x2=4x load effect). As seen in the ASPR pg.100 and MTL-False Crotch
Usually, the pull comes down the Standing part to lock the Bowline, so that the lock comes inline from the Standing to the 'bottom' of the formed eye. But, in this case the equal and opposite pull pairs is across the eye/ perpendicular to the Standing Part. So, to empower the lock we must turn the lock sideways likewise to meet these forces that empower it. It should be best maid as a DBY as shown in the ASPR pg.101. After my putting these together it was correctly pointed out; that according to the same lock theory of the SheetBend ; that perhaps the tail should be to the outside. MTL-Bowline to SheetBend
Simple Bends also gives some insights to the lock; progressing from the Square Knot class; to what makes a firmer lock earning the name bend (less needing stabilization). Another note is the Hitch(pull from 1 end but still traps/holds) in a SheetBend, becomes a Half Hitch(pulls from both ends) as the Sheet is tied to itself and to form eye and called a Bowline.
The Flash on the default white background here (that overrides my black background) shows one of my cheats, on the shadowing for depth. The shadowing is all ways there; but on a black background only shows up when something crosses over the non-black (another item).
http://www.mytreelessons.com/Jacked_Bowline.htm
Usually, the pull comes down the Standing part to lock the Bowline, so that the lock comes inline from the Standing to the 'bottom' of the formed eye. But, in this case the equal and opposite pull pairs is across the eye/ perpendicular to the Standing Part. So, to empower the lock we must turn the lock sideways likewise to meet these forces that empower it. It should be best maid as a DBY as shown in the ASPR pg.101. After my putting these together it was correctly pointed out; that according to the same lock theory of the SheetBend ; that perhaps the tail should be to the outside. MTL-Bowline to SheetBend
Simple Bends also gives some insights to the lock; progressing from the Square Knot class; to what makes a firmer lock earning the name bend (less needing stabilization). Another note is the Hitch(pull from 1 end but still traps/holds) in a SheetBend, becomes a Half Hitch(pulls from both ends) as the Sheet is tied to itself and to form eye and called a Bowline.
The Flash on the default white background here (that overrides my black background) shows one of my cheats, on the shadowing for depth. The shadowing is all ways there; but on a black background only shows up when something crosses over the non-black (another item).
http://www.mytreelessons.com/Jacked_Bowline.htm
NickfromWI
King of Splices
No biv- it let's you pull sideways on a bowline. With a regular bowline, if you tie a bowline in a line, then pull sideways on it, it might come undone.
love
nick
love
nick
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I call that a "locked off" bowline.
NickfromWI
King of Splices
MB- why do you call it that? It doesn't seem to be locked off. It seems a locked off bowline might have another wrap or tuck here or there...or maybe a backup knot built in. This one doesn't have any parts that the regular bowline doesn't have.
Just wonderin'
love
nick
ps- I have a feeling the answer is "just cuz."
Just wonderin'
love
nick
ps- I have a feeling the answer is "just cuz."
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
I dunno, maybe I looked at it wrong.
T
TheTreeSpyder
Guest
i think the Yosemite tie off of the DBY forms would be more locked off... This can still come undone like a regular bowline; is supposed to be backed up.
But really, the pulls should be inline and without deforming the bight that the free end is on. So, we make regular for a regular pull and side ways for a sideways pull to give proper lock and not deform the bight(release side of the release to lock of the half hitch formation)
Another note; a double bowline is more secure, but must be set extra well, especially in stiffer materials. Because as you make the 2 rings that give more security; it also gives a place for the pull to pull higher on; so inadvertently giving more leverage to possibly invert. How that can happen is easiest to see as the reverse of my favorite tying method; the slip knot method of tying a bowline.
MTL-Slip Knot Method of tying DBY
MTL Slip Knot Bowline behind back
i originally saw this method for a single Bowline tie, and called a Climber's Bowline; because if you were trapped on the side of a mountain they would lower a rope from a helicopter or overhead ledge, and you'd make the slipknot with one hand and then lace the line around you with one hand and then set it with one hand. This way you always were still holding on with one hand, and it was okay if you fell at last phase, as long as you held on. Then i adopted it to DBY. It is really an easy way to tie(especially with the 2 rings), but you can also easily see how the reverse could happen and it could invert to a tail inside a slip knot and come undone.
The slip knot method is also good, for tying in a rush; when you can make the slip knot first; and then just finish in a rush when other end is brought to you; or a bundle is drawn tight etc. You can easily even make the slip knot and then hang it on something, even your thumb temporarily, and then finish in an instant when time is right. In tree(or line moving away from you in any other kind of pull), the weight of the Standing Part itself is enough to easily pull the slip knot closed; and it almost works itself to automatically close the finish for you.
Sorry, i jest luv dis'chit!
But really, the pulls should be inline and without deforming the bight that the free end is on. So, we make regular for a regular pull and side ways for a sideways pull to give proper lock and not deform the bight(release side of the release to lock of the half hitch formation)
Another note; a double bowline is more secure, but must be set extra well, especially in stiffer materials. Because as you make the 2 rings that give more security; it also gives a place for the pull to pull higher on; so inadvertently giving more leverage to possibly invert. How that can happen is easiest to see as the reverse of my favorite tying method; the slip knot method of tying a bowline.
MTL-Slip Knot Method of tying DBY
MTL Slip Knot Bowline behind back
i originally saw this method for a single Bowline tie, and called a Climber's Bowline; because if you were trapped on the side of a mountain they would lower a rope from a helicopter or overhead ledge, and you'd make the slipknot with one hand and then lace the line around you with one hand and then set it with one hand. This way you always were still holding on with one hand, and it was okay if you fell at last phase, as long as you held on. Then i adopted it to DBY. It is really an easy way to tie(especially with the 2 rings), but you can also easily see how the reverse could happen and it could invert to a tail inside a slip knot and come undone.
The slip knot method is also good, for tying in a rush; when you can make the slip knot first; and then just finish in a rush when other end is brought to you; or a bundle is drawn tight etc. You can easily even make the slip knot and then hang it on something, even your thumb temporarily, and then finish in an instant when time is right. In tree(or line moving away from you in any other kind of pull), the weight of the Standing Part itself is enough to easily pull the slip knot closed; and it almost works itself to automatically close the finish for you.
Sorry, i jest luv dis'chit!
F
Frans
Guest
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #10
I started this thread because I was winching logs up a hill, and the damm bowline kept becoming an 'axe knot'.
Maybe I was tieing it incorrectly?
Maybe I was tieing it incorrectly?
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Did you try the stick trick?
R
RIVERRAT
Guest
J
JonnyHart
Guest
The tail is still on the inside. I thought that was the difference? That's a proper running bowline, but the second one isn't dressed.
Brush that snow off, you're gonna get that new rope all wet and dirty!
Brush that snow off, you're gonna get that new rope all wet and dirty!
T
TheTreeSpyder
Guest
Of curse for a lengthwise pull along the length of the spar, we'd want to precede the running bowline iwth a half hitch or marl; so as to not leverage the bowline by pulling crossways on it. We want the pulls to be inline on the main grab; the half hitch or marl strategies would correct this. This is why ABoK gives 2 different chapters on knots to spars; 1 for pulls perpendicular to spar and 1 for lenghwise pulls.
i'd think the bight should be tightend down more on the 2nd bowline. Even in the pic, some deformation is noted i think.
Tail/bitters on the outside isn't as sure a trap on the tail; and is said to be easeir to catch on something to be forced to invert to slip knot and release on ol'shipping docks.
i'd think the bight should be tightend down more on the 2nd bowline. Even in the pic, some deformation is noted i think.
Tail/bitters on the outside isn't as sure a trap on the tail; and is said to be easeir to catch on something to be forced to invert to slip knot and release on ol'shipping docks.
F
Frans
Guest
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #15
MB, I did the stick trick but the stick I picked was a bit rotten I guess and the knot just crushed it.
I have to pull over a big oak friday, and I will choose a bigger better stick
I have to pull over a big oak friday, and I will choose a bigger better stick
R
RIVERRAT
Guest
This is not the knot Frans was asking about. Yes it is dressed.but the second one isn't dressed.
What I was trying to show was how I leave my bowlines finished when they will see more than the average load. Regardless of which bowline I am using at the time.......Not sure why it has worked. Maybe I have been misled.
T
TheTreeSpyder
Guest
The 2nd doesn't have the half hitch pushed up as high as the 1st; i think this could give problems if it went to slip, by giving more impact distance.
But; as in tying any other knot; i due notice that you realize that everyone likes a lot of tail!!
But; as in tying any other knot; i due notice that you realize that everyone likes a lot of tail!!
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