Various ways to tie bowline
- Thread starter Eric H-L
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Marc-Antoine
TreeHouser
I wasn't talking about the slipped form, only the regular lapp bend.
I guess my problem with it is it creates mental clutter. I don't see it being useful for anything when a sheet bend uses all the same hand motions, and basically the same tucks, but it works. I wouldn't use a sheet bend anywhere where failure would be bad, but I don't think I've ever had a failure in the decades I've been using it. It holds in every kind of line, and never jams. It can be doubled for a bit more security, but is still easy to untie. I see the Lapp as not being worth the mental space to retain, and for newer people could cause consequences if confused with something good like a sheet bend.
Knotorious
That Guy With The Face
Either way, my intentions are not to suggest that the Lapp knot should be used in place of more popular, better established options. I'm a huge proponent of the double Sheet bend.
Burnham
Woods walker
Mental clutter...that's a fairly accurate description of what I feel if I try to keep up with @Knotorious and his many knots 
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CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
One mans hobby is anothers mental clutter.
Burnham
Woods walker
Complete agreement.
Knotorious
That Guy With The Face
@Burnham The world of knots is ENORMOUS. In the Ashley Book of Knots, the quintessential literature on this matter, there are 3,900 different knots and over 7,000 illustrations. But the stark reality is that the number of possible knots that can exist, mathematically and practically, is infinite. For me it's exciting to be a part of something that is effectively limitless in its opportunities for those who wish to create new knots and, in general, knots are extremely useful to know if you're just about anybody; especially for us tree climbers.
But yeah, I can see why it might be overwhelming and feel like mental clutter. Most people, understandably, learn whatever knots they NEED to know and then that's that -- and there's nothing wrong with that. Why waste useful brain capacity for knots you'll never use, which is the very fair argument @lxskllr made, along with the potential for it to confuse people and cause dangerous mistakes. But I'm not overwhelmed or confused. As @CurSedVoyce put it, this is my hobby, so I make special accommodations for information that some of you might deem useless for your own minds.
It is what it is. There's no wrong perspectives here. A few of you do seem to really enjoy my intense knot discussion, so I'll keep it up heh heh.
But yeah, I can see why it might be overwhelming and feel like mental clutter. Most people, understandably, learn whatever knots they NEED to know and then that's that -- and there's nothing wrong with that. Why waste useful brain capacity for knots you'll never use, which is the very fair argument @lxskllr made, along with the potential for it to confuse people and cause dangerous mistakes. But I'm not overwhelmed or confused. As @CurSedVoyce put it, this is my hobby, so I make special accommodations for information that some of you might deem useless for your own minds.
It is what it is. There's no wrong perspectives here. A few of you do seem to really enjoy my intense knot discussion, so I'll keep it up heh heh.
Knotorious
That Guy With The Face
Here's a new method (to me at least) for tying an inherently secure bowline. Think of it as an alternative to the Yosemite bowline. And yes, my hands shake a lot. I'm getting treated for that. Please don't comment on it. Stay focused.
Burnham
Woods walker
Oh, just tie the fookin' thing, already.
Knotorious
That Guy With The Face
Excuse me. sir. Forum police here. You're looking at disorderly conduct and failure to tolerate nonsense including, but not limited to knot tying of a highly repetitive and sometimes ridiculous nature. You'll have the right to appeal this in court. Here you go! This is your ticket! Post safely now!Oh, just tie the fookin' thing, already.
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Knotorious
That Guy With The Face
Notice how I tied my bowline variant loop in the orientation he claimed was more difficult. Just highlighting how much of an "expert" I am. Haha. I would argue that any normal person who can tie any knot in any single orientation (at least one correctly) can then simply change the finished knot's orientation to suit whatever need they may have so long as their is enough slack in the rope being used to tie the knot. No need for learning it in every orientation.
There are situations such as where the amout of slack won't allow anything but a differently orientated knot, so there are definite benefits to learning multiple orientations if you are a skilled climber who may find themselves in situations unlike that of a regular operator.
Ultimately, my perspective is this: learn as much as you can and, if you never use it practically, then you will still remain an educational resource for other people who might actually find themselves in a situation where that knowledge is useful.
Over half of what I know about knots I will NEVER use because knots are used by such an overwhelmingly large number of occupations and individuals. I have knot tips for alpinists, rescuers, arborists, rock climbers, fisherman, construction workers, etc. but I mainly focus on tree climbing of course.
Our brains have the capacity to absorb an infinite amount of information until we eventually decay, lose some of our faculties gradually over time and then die. Learn as much as you can and, just as importantly, teach as much as you can to as many people as you can!
Knowledge is great, but sharing it is greater.
I've never heard it called a snap bowline, but it has a use that hasn't been mentioned yet that is handy for different things. Since it's 2 loops doubled when you tighten it stays in place, meaning that it can be used to set the length of 2 legs fairly precisely. Certain knots are finished with a bowline, and that's where this version of the knot is vastly superior. 2 knots that i love that use this are the barrel/ bucket knot for suspending a bucket from a rope and making a handle and the jury masthead which can be used to rig a spar for guylines and other rigging or to sling awkward loads like a rock or boulder (cannon balls used to be carried in them or similar knots). Both knots are best finished with the snap bowline.
Knotorious
That Guy With The Face
Hark! It is I...."that guy with the face!" I come bearing a couple of interesting, noteworthy, thus far unaddressed and wholly fantabulous pieces of knot knowledge with which I shall add to the present and ongoing deliberation! I shan't be persuaded otherwise!
Huzzah!
For my first exhibit, I intend to make everyone familiar with some lesser known, inherently secure (aka "locked), variants of the bowline. Take a gander, if you will, at the diagram below. It contains a trio of locked bowline variants which have yet to be brought up in this thread.
Just to establish some facts before I get to my introductions, it should be understood that every locked variant that I am about to discuss all possess the highly desirable characteristic of having three rope diameters contained inside of the nipping loop. The first is known as the "EBSB" bowline, which is an acronym for End Bound Single Bowline, and it is comparable to (or, in some cases, superior to) most any other inherently secure bowline variant, including but not limited to the original Yosemite Bowline.
The second bowline variant on the menu is known as the "Lee's Link Bowline," which is easily one of the coolest variants, both conceptually/structurally and visually. This knot's structure makes it especially resistant to breaking and, once again, it is considered to be equal to or (sometimes) better than other locked bowline variants. If you enjoy learning how to tie new knots (lord knows that I do!), then I strongly suggest that you put learning this one on your list!
Tertiarily, we have "Alan Lee's Yosemite Bowline," which was inspired by the original version of the knot. This cleverly designed variant is considered to be notably superior to the original Yosemite Bowline because of how the tail ends up getting secured within the nipping loops instead of simply pulled through the collar. For those of you who use the original Yosemite Bowline, I'd strongly encourage you to switch to this variant instead. If you can tie the first, then tying the second will be mindless and you'll be safer as a result.
Next, this second diagram contains at least four bowline variants which also have yet to be introduced to this delightful thread. I'll make this one simple: all three in the first row and the one in the middle in the second row are the variants to which I am referring. They are all, in some form or another, inspired by and/or related to the "Triple Bowline." For anyone seeking a truly bomber double loop knot, I would like to direct your attention to the second and third knots within the first row.
The "Triple Bowline (simple lock)" is one of my all time favorites. It starts similar to a standard "Triple Bowline," but instead of utilizing the working bight to form a third loop, this knot finishes with the bight secured inside of the collar, pretty much exactly how the tail is secured for the original Yosemite Bowline. As a result, this knot can be considered to be inherently secure ("locked"), meaning it can be used for life support applications.
The second one I just mentioned, first row, far right, is basically the same as a regular "Scott's Locked Bowline," except this is a midline knot (the previous knot is also tied midline) and it is instead formed using a bight, creating a variant which has doubled strands throughout.
Thanks for reading this! I hope you learned something and/or discovered some exciting new knots to learn and analyze!
Huzzah!
For my first exhibit, I intend to make everyone familiar with some lesser known, inherently secure (aka "locked), variants of the bowline. Take a gander, if you will, at the diagram below. It contains a trio of locked bowline variants which have yet to be brought up in this thread.
Just to establish some facts before I get to my introductions, it should be understood that every locked variant that I am about to discuss all possess the highly desirable characteristic of having three rope diameters contained inside of the nipping loop. The first is known as the "EBSB" bowline, which is an acronym for End Bound Single Bowline, and it is comparable to (or, in some cases, superior to) most any other inherently secure bowline variant, including but not limited to the original Yosemite Bowline.
The second bowline variant on the menu is known as the "Lee's Link Bowline," which is easily one of the coolest variants, both conceptually/structurally and visually. This knot's structure makes it especially resistant to breaking and, once again, it is considered to be equal to or (sometimes) better than other locked bowline variants. If you enjoy learning how to tie new knots (lord knows that I do!), then I strongly suggest that you put learning this one on your list!
Tertiarily, we have "Alan Lee's Yosemite Bowline," which was inspired by the original version of the knot. This cleverly designed variant is considered to be notably superior to the original Yosemite Bowline because of how the tail ends up getting secured within the nipping loops instead of simply pulled through the collar. For those of you who use the original Yosemite Bowline, I'd strongly encourage you to switch to this variant instead. If you can tie the first, then tying the second will be mindless and you'll be safer as a result.
Next, this second diagram contains at least four bowline variants which also have yet to be introduced to this delightful thread. I'll make this one simple: all three in the first row and the one in the middle in the second row are the variants to which I am referring. They are all, in some form or another, inspired by and/or related to the "Triple Bowline." For anyone seeking a truly bomber double loop knot, I would like to direct your attention to the second and third knots within the first row.
The "Triple Bowline (simple lock)" is one of my all time favorites. It starts similar to a standard "Triple Bowline," but instead of utilizing the working bight to form a third loop, this knot finishes with the bight secured inside of the collar, pretty much exactly how the tail is secured for the original Yosemite Bowline. As a result, this knot can be considered to be inherently secure ("locked"), meaning it can be used for life support applications.
The second one I just mentioned, first row, far right, is basically the same as a regular "Scott's Locked Bowline," except this is a midline knot (the previous knot is also tied midline) and it is instead formed using a bight, creating a variant which has doubled strands throughout.
Thanks for reading this! I hope you learned something and/or discovered some exciting new knots to learn and analyze!
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