Greatest frustration with running a crew or otherwise

The disregard for any gear is a problem for sure. It's amazing to see how well a climber takes care of his own rope compared to a rope that is provided to him by an employer.

My newest piss off is clients who cant respond to an email. Any invoice I send out has one simple question/task in it:

"Can you give a quick response to this email to note it has been received?"


60% of the time I get a response the first time around. If anybody has this problem and has found a solution please let me know.
 
The problem in those coming into the workforce is that they were not taught to work. So many smart people coming out of high school. But there is this idea in the US that you go to college, and become successful. That's just not the case. Many parents haven't taught their kids to work, because they want them to avoid the trades. The want them to run far away from a career of rough hands and sore backs. So they push them to focus on school. When, for one reason or another, they find themselves unable to get the job they always dreamed of, they find work in the trades. And suck. Its often not their fault.

Ive hired farm boys and watched them do wheelies around my jobs. Work is what they know. its what they were taught. On the opposite end, Ive hired guys with a college education, but ended up my way because they cant find the job they want, and they don't know the first thing about how to bang out work on a job. They simply weren't taught that by their fathers. Their fathers had higher hopes for them, and made sure not to make them into blue collar workers. I end up becoming their new father for a period of time until they get into a rythym, or get a move on elsewhere.
 
Too much unproductive individuality in the states. That is how the education goes....be unique! Unfortunately, a best approach only for geniuses. In other places, there is more ability to link your consciousness with the total group effort at a given task. Also, possibly people are less adept at projecting ahead to what they want to accomplish, say by the end of the day, more just in the moment of where they are when working (like feeling lazy). Also in the west, people don't like interference in their brains from someone else, they much resent that and take it so personal. The ones that have it, have it, others are very difficult to change (what i found teaching woodworking there as well). Aside from that, mostly I love the states!
 
Great post, as usual, Chris. I don't disagree with any of it. But I also feel that many or most people are "born" with the ability and/or desire to work hard, doesnt matter if they have been to college or not nor whether they had a work oriented upbringing fostered by parents. They just have it.
 
I think that if you aren't born with the ability to work hard, it can be changed. It can take a revolution of your soul, not an easy task. Stick around for at least three years and hold on to the desire.
 
I agree that there is an overall stigma associated with the trades now in the United States. I'm always impressed when Stig talks about the apprenticeship system they have over in his area. It instills a value to the work, a value to the knowledge of how to work, a value to the teacher, and value to the workers.
 
Human nature is as unpredictable as the weather, I've run crews, made bail, child support payments, alimony, reclaimed tools from pawn shops that were gifted to the most promising, all at Cecelias' protest. I have no answer.
 
Chris, I think it is a real good point about becoming someone's father. The manual trades are generally so much different from much of what you learn in school, unless you were the one of the guys that were really into shop. Often before someone is able to progress within the scope of what they have to learn, they have to be turned into something that allows and helps promote that. if you miss that step for those that need it, the later isn't going to happen. Anger, coddling, probably a combination of the two, it isn't easy, and is a great gift to bestow on someone when it is achieved. In the traditional set up, it isn't uncommon for someone to hate their teacher, I conceived of ways to murder mine, but at some point they likely come around to much better understanding what they were given for their life, as I have.

I once had the former student body president of a rich area high school want to enter my shop to learn woodwork, I accepted him. I hadn't been back in the states so long then and few people had worked for me. I tried the Japanese way of instruction, just how it was with me, and all I really knew about how it is done. It completely blew him out, such that he was throwing up at lunch. :lol: At one point it became a very disagreeable situation when he blew his top when I asked him to make a cup of tea. He just couldn't give up himself at all. I guess he was around for a year or two, and later when I saw a chair that he had made after he decided he could go at it independently, it looked like crap. He missed a lot of opportunity by being his way. On the other hand, I had a guy come work for me that was about the ideal. He was already a carpenter to begin with, and knew about the sacrifices when learning by not valueing himself so highly, and about hard work. I didn't need any system with him at all, it just went naturally. He could make a good cup of tea as well. He was a much tougher kid than the student body president.
 
Agree 100% with Chris and Cory. I've known some good college guys who can keep pace with me all day long and some more blue collar people who are useless. It's about growing up being taught that drive to work hard, to go above and beyond, that something worth doing once is worth doing right. It's everything to do with how you're raised, and what you're taught. Doesn't matter if you're lower class, middle class, upper class, whatever, it's all the same. If your parents teach you to work for what you want in life, and too work hard at whatever you're working at, you grow up to be like a lot of us are on here, hard working, tough, SOB's.

As for people pushing their kids away from the trades, I agree, but I will say that someone noticed this awhile ago because I've seen more trade schools appearing, like good teaching, good people, and a good education type trade school. My little bro for example goes a half day each school day for ag mechanics and has been picking up a lot of mechanic stuff. I've heard of an arborist one in MA that's supposed to be great. So I'm starting to see a trend that the trades are kind of coming back as a legit job that parents can and will want to push their kids into.
 
The trade schools are growing because there is a NEED to recruit fresh, trained men into the workforce. Too many kids run off to college to get rich. They a lot of them sell sneakers at the mall..
 
Ranger Danger I totally agree with you about good parenting being so important. If your not taught to work hard, cherish your opportunities, listen to someone when they speak, respect yourself and others then your likely going to have to learn the hard way. What I learned from this is your approach can make a world of difference for the willing to learn.
" Always much to learn but what works is best to know" Mark
 
One of the very best workers I ever had the privilege of working with one summer was a girl who was recommended to me by the high school woodshop teacher. She was eager to learn, and learned quick. Had no issues with wearing full PPE, and gave 100% effort. Not sure what she is doing now, but compared to most of the guys I've had, she more than made up for a lack of physical strength by determination and using her brain.
 
I always LOLed @ the guys who had to take a mid-morning (or afternoon) dump, and whined about it. They need to get their bowels in order! I even brought that up in my Excellent Groundman article...

Get your shit together, people!!!
 
Tucker943 said:
The problem in those coming into the workforce is that they were not taught to work. So many smart people coming out of high school. But there is this idea in the US that you go to college, and become successful. That's just not the case. Many parents haven't taught their kids to work, because they want them to avoid the trades. The want them to run far away from a career of rough hands and sore backs. So they push them to focus on school. When, for one reason or another, they find themselves unable to get the job they always dreamed of, they find work in the trades. And suck. Its often not their fault.

Ive hired farm boys and watched them do wheelies around my jobs. Work is what they know. its what they were taught. On the opposite end, Ive hired guys with a college education, but ended up my way because they cant find the job they want, and they don't know the first thing about how to bang out work on a job. They simply weren't taught that by their fathers. Their fathers had higher hopes for them, and made sure not to make them into blue collar workers. I end up becoming their new father for a period of time until they get into a rythym, or get a move on elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Great post, Chris.
It is a problem in Denmark as well.
Enough of one that our present government is funelling extra money into the trade school system to make it more attractive for students.
Also they are talking about having the same grade requirement as college in order to keep the bottom feeding riff raff out.

All in an effort to stop the present trend of 80% of the kids wanting to go to college. We'll end up having no one left to build the houses and fix the cars and appliances for all those "smart" kids. Simply because years of neglect have caused the trade schools to get an image of the place you go if you are not "good enough" to go to college.

The young men, I choose for apprentice have all been smart as hell, just not motivated for school. Our present one worked as a furniture mover for years, went to war in Afghanistan and came home with a firm idea of what he wanted to do with his life.
Work outdoor in the woods. Tough as nails, full of pride and willing to learn.
When I think back, they have all been like that. But then, of course, I've said "Sorry, we don't have an opening right now" to hundreds of others that weren't.
 
I actually get compliments from customers when we take our kids to work. Most people respect that we are instilling work ethic instead of worrying about every boo boo they might get.
 
you know this is just the beginning of the part of life where I get to pick out my own crew since summer I have been through three guys I just stopped calling them cause they wouldn't work had to tell em everything 100 times and 5 min later they would still just be standing there now I have two brothers no experience but man do they work my wife and sometimes my dad and my baby brother wants too join up after striper season and the funny thing is Im a calm guy on a job site I just expect you to gas up n warm up my saws keep the ground clear my lines free and don't get hurt if possible but I under stand things happen , I remember my first tree Job the owner was terrible always screaming on everyone never happy even after we put in 110% cussin us all the time , but I hung in there cause he taught me a lot , how to climb , use a saw , what to look for in my equip. I took it as its the message not the messenager ,this guy sees my wife and still talks bad about me lies and everything he was the worst boss like pay day was every fri well we never got our full pay on fri he never had it always had to come back sun or mon for it and I learnd to climb from this man and he kept me at $10 an hour like his ground guys and this is the watered down version but the point is is that there is some terrible bosses out there too, goes both ways
 
Talks bad about you to your wife..... I'd be wanting to have a little discussion with that fellow myself. Respect where it's due to former teachers, but anything bad to be said, say it to your face or shut up.
 
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