First Big Top - using redirects on slopes

[Marc-Antoine]

Very clear instead.

I was ready to do that, at the last second , just before the top's bump on the stem. But I didn't had the time.
It isn't the slam back that hurt me ( my left inner thigh doesn't agree though), My problem in the both previous stories was the first part, when the stem bent, catching the top. A very fast forward move and my saddle pulled hard on my back, over bending it.

To avoid that, I well thought to hug the stem immediately after the cut, but I didn't want my legs to be catch under the loaded sling (or under the rigging rope in the usual way). No many choices here.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

M-A, are you saying you just caught/ hung the top with a sling, rather than any rope?

 

[SkwerI]

Sean,
With inexperienced groundies, having them handle the roping can be more dangerous than just doing it yourself. Almost all inexperienced groundies will instinctively do the exact opposite of what needs to be done and they will do everything in their power to hurt you (lock the rope off and hold on as tight as possible without letting the load run a single inch until after it has shaken you off the stem and then smacked you in the leg). I would much rather take the chance of rigging something myself than let a rookie handle the rope because no matter how many times you tell them, they will do it wrong at least 2-3 times before they believe you. I'm not willing to get smacked or shaken every time some rookie needs to learn how to rope.

 

[brendonv]

I will climb higher or further, or self rope with rookie. Had to do it thursday actually. Tall as Tulip, they thought letting it run meant keeping a loop of slack in the line so it floats then jolts the shit out of me. Over a dozen times they couldn't get it. So I self roped two tops way up as the trunk was compromised, and I was 85' up on 6" Tulip wood.

That's why I'm jonesing to get the bucket truck. They can jolt the tree all they want at that point.

 

[SkwerI]

At 85' you would think they would have enough room to let it run more than 3' before slamming it to a stop. Don't want to let it hit anything!

 

[brendonv]

Ya'd think huh! Tulip too, so tall and scary, with a wound at 50' where the two stems split.

 

[Tucker943]

At 85' on 6" tulip poplar, is be a RAGING lunatic coming out of that tree like Peter Pan if a groundie rocked me. On bigger wood, I'd suck it up. On 6" poplar, someone would get their head cut off.

 

[brendonv]

I try to stay thin, it helps. I find myself on tiny wood a lot.

 

[Tucker943]

I don't mind tiny wood. But my groundman knows to be a gentleman with the rope.

 

[SouthSoundTree]

Yes, Brian, catch it yourself rather than letting the rookie do it.

I was asking if it was snubbed off by just hanging it with a sling, rather than self-roping.

The Belay Spool has a positive attribute over a POW in that it shouldn't have the risk of having the rope wrap over itself, locking it up, which can be a potential risk with the POW, particularly in the tree. I have no experience with this happening. I haven't used a POW in the tree, only the BS. Also the BS is more compact, and as cheap as a mini-POW. With roping parts of the tree below a high anchored BS, you can reset the rope easily as many times as necessary. Combine it with Polydyne or other relatively elastic rigging line, and you have a really good self-lowering set-up.

 

[RIVERRAT]

I am not one to change tools all the time. Liking to stay with what I know works.

With that said Yale's Polydyne looks promising to me regarding some of the situations described. I may give it a try on some of my dead TD's.
I am also working on a sling & hitch that slides a bit prior to grabbing. To help lesson shock.

With all this, a good hand on the ground,with great rope skills is worth more to me than another climber!

Some thing I very seldom have

 

[pete mctree]

Self roping & friction management within a tree are skills seldom discussed , yet vital to efficient working & the self preservation of the climber at times. It's a hard thing to teach a good climber never mind a rookie

 

[Tucker943]

I learned self roping when I was first in business and couldn't provide enough work to keep help around. I ropes down each piece, rapelled down, untied, went back up the tree and did it again. I DO NOT look back on those days fondly.

 

[ClimbingFool]

I learned self roping when I was first in business and couldn't provide enough work to keep help around. I ropes down each piece, rapelled down, untied, went back up the tree and did it again. I DO NOT look back on those days fondly.

Good God! what a lot of work.....

 

[Tucker943]

It was horrible. But I was focused on the future and was willing to kill myself to make it happen. I did a lot of removals that way. I did a removal over Lake Winola that way once and every time I came down out of the tree had to wade up to my waist in the lake to bring the limb out.

I wouldn't want to live those days over, but I learned a lot from them.

 

[RIVERRAT]

Here is a simple trick that works well.

Start by feeding your line through a block or biner what ever is appropriate. Take your terminal end & tie running bowline.

Choke a strap or length of rope with biner to piece being cut & dropped.

Let the cut piece run to the ground.

Untie your Bowline pulling your end of the rope through the biner on the ground & repeat as needed.

 

[Marc-Antoine]

M-A, are you saying you just caught/ hung the top with a sling, rather than any rope?

Yes, that's it.
Said like that, it seems silly. But usually it works well and I dismantle many trees like that (limbs and top).
It worked well in the London plane too (except for the ride).
In a conventional rigging, my working point would be almost at the same high as my tie-in point and way beyond the fence, not very comfy. Nobody on the ground to take the pieces. I didn't have the time to set a rigging system and make up and down travels. I can't drop limbs on the watering crew too.
So I cut lower, bigger, and at a place where I could toss the limbs and chunks over the fence. The purpose was to cut the big top and to piece it down in place up there, while it's hanging on the sling, with no more part out of reach: I go down cutting all the small limbs and then climb up again to cut small logs from the hanging top on the way up (all in hand manageable size ). I get back my sling, then buck the stem.

Same technique to limb trees like acer, cedrus, oak, black locust ..., with bunches of five or six limbs at each time.

The main concern is that there is no damping effect from the sling, only from the tree itself ... and me !

 

[SkwerI]

This is also a common method for working tops down from a bucket truck. I use a similar method all the time when working out past my reach.

 

[pantheraba]

Here is a mess of pictures and then some video. There was a lot of deadwood on the way up the first tree. Alex called for the 3 lb hammer and used the Thor technique on at least 20-25 wrist sized limbs...busted them out quicker than a Silky or the Stihl. 1-3 whacks and they were GONE.

That last spar he cut shot down the hill and only stopped because of the power right of way..a pretty cool sight.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Thor Method I love it!
Had him saw some lean into it I see

 

[pantheraba]

I used a ladder to rig the codom for dropping the tops from them. We used Alex's winch to pull the biggest pine near the house...it had a slight lean over the house. It probably took close to two hours to get the pull line set way up high and get the winch in place and anchored and tight. But is saved a sight of climbing, rigging, roping, chaos and havoc. Dropping whole trees is LOADS more fun than a tedious rigging job.

We made a pretty good mess on that hillside. And it is still there.

 

[pantheraba]

Hahaha...yep, Stephen. That phrase has stuck with me, too...saw some lean into it. I likes it. I can't remember if it was a Burnhamism, a Gerryism or some otherism, but it makes sense.

 

[pantheraba]

The first video is the codom we took out...first time I have dropped two spars at once like that. Alex had the good sense to tie the pull line onto the rear codom which, I think, was a more efficient way to pull. It had a slight lean towards the house. May not have really mattered which spar we tied to but it crossed my mind that if we tied to the front spar and the codom split at the seam we might have a mess on our hands.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Qu90M-rhi98" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

..


This is the whole white pine that was in the first picture, about 80 feet, I think. It landed slap on top of another stump and did the bucking bronco thing...pretty cool to see close up. It missed the power lines by about 10 feet but broke off a limb from another tree that shot thru the air and hit the lines...that was what I saw moving. We planned the drop right but didn't foresee broken limbs flying thru the air...no harm done luckily.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/joAfWJFJPv0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[SkwerI]

The first video is the codom we took out...first time I have dropped two spars at once like that. Alex had the good sense to tie the pull line onto the rear codom which, I think, was a more efficient way to pull. It had a slight lean towards the house. May not have really mattered which spar we tied to but it crossed my mind that if we tied to the front spar and the codom split at the seam we might have a mess on our hands.

On the codom, yes, it matters a lot which spar you tie to. Your son was absolutely correct.

 

[FJR]

Very cool Gary. Did the codom split when it hit the ground or stay together?