Dreadful News

You mean if the brush gets stuck I'm NOT supposed to push it in with my foot??
 
top hopper said:
According to Dr John Ball's research the numbers are that high. One fatality every 2 weeks on average.
The number one killer being 'struck bys', electrocution, the occasional chipper defragmentation, traffic accidents, and believe it or not his research also claims one drowning. His research is particular to the tree care industry only. Not tree care and logging mixed together.
If you ever have the chance to see him speak it is well worth it, and quite eye opening.

And Frans I dont necessarily lose sleep over it either, and I certainly dont proclaim to myself why, why, why. You are right bad decisions, inattentiveness, and even complacency. But one thing these fatalities can do is constantly remind the rest of us to always be mindful, no matter what we do! In our line of work a second chance is rare and if you try to cheat just once it may be your last chance.

I dont want to come off as the ANSI police, but how do think our regulations are derived? Sure most everyone here knows how to and how not to feed a chipper and yet still live to chip another day. But I see so many unsafe practices everyday by so called professionals, having nothing to do with running a chipper.

Climbing for example- do you always tie in twice everytime you use a power saw?
Are you always secured at every instance?
Do you lean out of a bucket truck?
Do you always wear leg protection when running a saw on the ground?
Have you ever run a saw with an inoperable brake?
Do you ever one hand a saw?

I most certainly am not claiming that I do or have not ever done these things. But these too are all practices that can be very injurious and fatal, just the same as poor practices can be whilst running a chipper other equipment. Truth is everyone here, makes some type of short cut here or there and probably more often than they will admit to anyone else.

How many of you know someone who has fallen out of a tree?

I know several people personally, and they all made a foolish mistake of some sort or another, but most likely executed bad judgment leading to their fall. Some were plain cowboys and some were very skilled climbers, but nonetheless they all still fell because of their actions. I hear the particulars of how these falls happen and I think to myself "what were they thinking?" obviously they weren't.

My point is, no matter what we do, we all face risks in our jobs, more than most. Stop paying attention for one second and meet your maker.
To say someone is stupid because they were pulled through a chipper is like saying someone is stupid for falling out of a tree, or getting a chainsaw kickback, or getting a struck by, or getting electrocuted. It can happen, and when you realize it can happen you will be better prepared to avoid those situations altogether. Sure there are plenty of dumasses who are stupid and do stupid things everyday and are just asking for it, but id be willing to bet that not EVERY fatality was not some dumb ass who had it coming.

I challenge each and every one of you to critique yourself on everything you do to protect yourself from injury or fatality, and be honest with yourself about it (cuz thats who it really matters too). I think you will be surprised to find we all can do more to protect ourselves. And if you ever think your safe, you are wrong!

I could go through many of the pictures in threads here and find countless acts of safety violations of some sort or another. Even from those of you (myself included) with years of experience and proper training to boot.

rant over
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Excellent post, John. It was a friggin accident. Carl, was your Pops stupid for stump grinding a hunk of wire? No, it was an accident!
 
I jusk asked him and we agree in that moment he was, which caused the accident.


If stupid actions result in an accident, does that effet the stupidity of the actions?
 
beating-a-dead-horse.gif
 
People who are not stupid sometimes make stupid mistakes. I know this , not only from observation,but from personal experience. I do feel sad for the victim's family, coworkers and all witnesses.-But I'm not going to dwell on it or lose sleep over it.
 
How about these guys? Lack of training? Lack of attentiveness? No I do not wish they would have an accident, not in any way whatsoever, but this is a prime example of how accidents happen.

The speed limit on this road is 50 mph
 

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grinding a stump and hitting unseen or unkown wire is an accident, walking out on a limb unsecured is stupidity (coupled with a lack of training likely).
IMHO.
 
No rope, no saddle, no flagger.

Why? Just getting the job done. That rope and saddle crap is for whiteys, not for real working guys.

Rope and saddle work is for sissies. Jeez you guys are a bunch of pansies.
:|:
 
I know I'm a little late on this thread but we are just speculating on what actually happened. BUT I would think that a city worker would have had oodles of training, safety meetings, a chipper that is both up to date and in good shape, minimal pressure to get a lot of brush chipped, he would have probably been written up for doing anything unsafe. I don't see how this happened. I preach safety to my guys because 1, from personal experience nothing brings work to a halt faster than an accident and #2 they are kind of friends also and I consider myself (as their employer) responsible for their safety on the job. That being said and I know we are speaking in generalities here, stuff does happen. Don't forget Burnham, I think he's a hard-working Govt. employee.
 
You are kind to mention me, Steve.

I try not to get wound up too tight anymore when the predictable rants against gov't employees surface from time to time. But I have to point out, you folks are frequently going off on the low quality performance of a significant proportion of your competition in the tree biz...all private industry outfits or individuals.

With that in mind, how is it that some of you feel gov't employees have such a monopoly on poor productivity and quality of work?
 
Burnham, No monopoly whatsoever. Large numbers of people in all sectors are irresponsible, lazy and near worthless as members of society.
 
Burnham said:
You are kind to mention me, Steve.

I try not to get wound up too tight anymore when the predictable rants against gov't employees surface from time to time. But I have to point out, you folks are frequently going off on the low quality performance of a significant proportion of your competition in the tree biz...all private industry outfits or individuals.

With that in mind, how is it that some of you feel gov't employees have such a monopoly on poor productivity and quality of work?
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:) nicely put sir!
 
Accidents can happen to anyone antyime. It is sad and regrettible, but they do happen. No matter the experiance or age Accidents happen. That is why they are called that, accidents.
Other words as incompetence, neglect (?) and stupidety has their place as well as arrogant and insencetive.

Many people die in accidents and it is not fair to assume a lot of things when facts are not provided.

Anything can happen, it is very likly this poor fella did all by the book and still something went wrong.

There is not alway's one to blame for stuff that happends. Many times we get affected more by that as it makes us realize we can't know and predict evrything.
 
I worked for the gov for a summer and it was safe and good quality work. The boro i worked for send thier full time guys to a week long climbing and rigging camp/facility to be trained.
 
It's a shame someone died like that.

I didn't read the whole thread, but I have caught some bits and pieces about people mentioning the gov. so I will share what I have seen.

On a state level, sure-I believe the workers are trained properly for the job at hand. When it comes to the city/local level, I don't believe there is enough training from what I have visually witnessed. These guys are just glorified handymen. They do everything, so I don't think the $ is there for the training.

I have been less than impressed when watching my local city do tree work. Operating a old phone utility bucket, and stuffing the chipper. I wouldn't let some of these guys walk my dog...
 
welcome Jman!

Brendan, I'd agree with your assumptions of small town municipal workers. Same guy who mows the grass, may do the painting and operate heavy machinery.

on the other hand.

SOME of us have dedicated full time Urban Forestry Divisions;)
 
Heya OTG. Where I worked is an abortown. Or atleast I think thats what they called it. They had deticated urban foresty jobs but they did plant flowers in the right of way in the center of the town and once i saw them help out the utility guy change a light bulb that was higher than his truck's boom could reach. The entire facility, which had trash guys running out of it, went 3 years with out a lost time accident when I left. I think its hit or miss most times because where I'm living now its a bunch of hacks with city jobs. I hear very bad things about them.
 
Jman said:
Heya OTG. Where I worked is an abortown. Or atleast I think thats what they called it. They had deticated urban foresty jobs but they did plant flowers in the right of way in the center of the town and once i.
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probably a "tree city USA"?? My guys would lynch me if I asked them to plant flowers!:lol:

we do have a large horticulture staff for stuff like that though.
 
Burnham With that in mind, how is it that some of you feel gov't employees have such a monopoly on poor productivity and quality of work?
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Well Burnham I will tell you.

First of all you represent an incredibly small portion of the federal workers.

For the most part, (99%) the feds use part time, intermittent, casual laborers who are seasonal.

You represent an incredibly small margin of the federal workforce. And you know this. (as a side note, it is a crying shame that you folks do not get the support you need)

The guy who was killed was a municipal worker.


Apples and oranges
 
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