Dreadful News

:( It hard to see this as anything but a preventable tragedy. However, given that it's already happened and there's no undoing it now, the only thing anybody can do is make use of the wake up call in our work. If the news of this death prevents somebody else from dying, then maybe he won't have died for nothing.

A guy doesn't have to be your brother in order feel some compassion for him when he dies.
 
I'm gonna go out on a limb here ( figuratively )....


How on earth does a guy get sucked into a chipper?

My answer is: NOT paying attention and being stupid.


Butch has told me time and time again to think about these events personally and visualize if it had happened to me, or my spouse, or a family member or friend.

I say, if some fool got sucked into the chipper it is not the fault of the manufacturer, not the fault of the owner of the company, not the fault of society, it is the fault of the dummy whom it happened to.

Darwin theory of evolution. The stupid will die, the smart will live..


Rant over
 
I was going to post when this thread first came up, "how does one 'fall' in to a chipper? But since I am not a tree guy with a chipper etc I waited to see where this thread went.

I dont know the fellow that died but I do hope his family is ok and I hope if the accident was preventable (better training, supervision etc) that the appropriate measures are taken to prevent further injuries or deaths.
 
I see your point Frans, but remember some people just are not properly trained on how to safely run a chipper, but merely told "brush goes in here, and chips come out there". To say someone is stupid because a machine took there life is a blanket statement.

I say it comes down to training. If properly trained it is not likely to happen.
Now if someone is blatantly ignoring proper use and being stupid, well as Forest said "stupid is as stupid does"
 
With 7 years experience working there, pretty much anyone who cares about their own well being will come to understand how to run a chipper without getting sucked in. Training is what you get in the first 30 days of running the machine. After that, your understanding of the machine is fairly well set and any additional safety preachings will often be ignored. Those of us who have survived have done so mostly due to our own due diligence (and perhaps a little bit of luck).
 
Ill agree with that Brian. 7 years is a long time.

But had he really that much time on the chipper?

Truth is noone knows, and to make assumptions about someones intelligence because they were killed in an avoidable accident is still just an assumption.

Fact is in the US- someone in our industry dies from an avoidable accident once every 2 weeks. Tragic.

Yes training is only the first step, and our own due diligence will keep us safe from there (with that added luck).

Im willing to bet everyone here can recall an incident in there career (in this industry) that you look back upon and say WTF was I thinking? Im lucky to be alive. The smart ones learn from those close calls and the stubborn die unfortunately.
 
Bad luck? Off day? Who knows? Sorry to hear of this fellows death and I feel badly for his family and those that witnessed it. For me I take heed of this as a warning for myself to be extra dilligent with my new chipper.
 
Actually John, the numbers aren't that high. Quoted from the article Gigi posted,
Thirty-one people were killed in wood chipper accidents from 1992 to 2002, according to a 2005 report by the Journal of the American Medical Assn.
That's 3 per year, or one every 4 months. In the entire United States. And we see idiots using unsafe methods while feeding chippers every day in every city and town in the country. I'm shocked the numbers are so low, because I see at least 4-5 people per year doing stuff that should, by all reasonable expectations, cause their premature death.

I guess I'll go sit in the corner with Carl and Frans... :|:
 
And Justin, but before you come, recant that last post.

John said that someone dies in an tree related industrial accident every 2 weeks, not limiting it to chippers.


We might be different than most, but we pride ourselves in being right.
:)
 
I am sorry but I have been doing tree work for over 20 years.

My first day, and I remember it well, was working for this guy dragging brush.

He told me to 'gas up the saws'. I opened the box on the truck and there was this pile of greasy saws just piled on top of each other with this huge 3/4" chain running through the handles.
I asked him 'You want ALL the saws gassed'? and he answered 'why the F-- did I ask you to gas the saws unless I wanted the saws gassed?
These saws ranged from 020s to 076s maybe 15 saws in this one huge box.
I unlocked the padlock and started pulling these saws out of the box. They were greasy, sharp, and when i pulled the first one out, the rest just fell toward me onto the ground. I leaped out of the way and the boss just laughed. He said 'You gotta watch your shit on this job or your gonna die' and then just laughed and laughed.

His chipper was a 'chuck 'n Duck' and dull as ditch water. All day long attempting to stuff dead euc. branches into this chipper.
I got so beat up I was bleeding all over the place. No gloves, no hearing protection, no glasses.
Just these dead branches which would NOT go into the chipper. I had to really lean my weight onto them to get that damm chipper to accept them.

Now that I know better, I realize that situation could not have been more dangerous. for 5 years I worked for this guy in some of the worst conditions. We had a major fire, (oakland hills firestorm,you can google it) and weeks and weeks of chipping dead burned branches with a dull chuck and duck working on steep hillsides winching crap downhill with a deaf dummass working the crane. Loading trunk wood onto different beat up trucks. The crane had a worn out clutch so when he hit the lever, the wood would just drop. Up to me to be out of the way.

But for some unknown reason I always managed to really pay attention to where my body was, and how to stay the hell away from the open moving parts and to not get myself killed.

My point is, no matter how safe you engineer a tool, or how safe you 'train' someone, or no matter how well you schedule your 'safety' meetings, their will always be some stupid person who, like a lemming, will jump off the cliff and die.

I will not, and do not, lose sleep over these guys. I will not wring my hands and cry and weep and say why why why?

This guy had a good job, with all kinds of training and support, he is chipping brush, and got sucked into the chipper. Too bad. He shoulda used what God gave him, his brain.
 
Wasn't it a city job? If not training at the least there was probably zero pressure on him for performance. I mean here it's all unionized and what not no one should ever work hard enough that they might possibly get hurt......even in the slightest.

I've been pushed most of my life for production hard enough and long enough that I now just come by it naturally.:)
 
Butch, he was a government employee. No matter what we may otherwise think about government jobs, you must realize that the vast majority of government employees will get many times more safety training and PPE than any free market employee. This is because cost isn't an issue when it comes to employee safety while working for the government. It's paid for with tax dollars, not dollars coming out of the company owner's pocket.

When I worked for the city of Winter Park, I had more safety gear, safety training, tailgate meetings and safety procedures than all my other employers combined. But I still worked with some of the least competent and most dangerous co-workers of my entire career. I quit when the most dumbest and most dangerous guy on the crew was given yet another annual raise and his pay equaled mine even after 2+ years there. I was running a climbing crew and he was driving around pulling the water wagon watering trees because he wasn't qualified to possess a chainsaw, but they couldn't fire him and he 'deserved' his annual raise. Yet they couldn't pay me more because of pay scale rules. Stupid crap like this is why the stupidest and least competent people gravitate towards government jobs. They can't hack it in the real world where you have to earn your keep.

Sorry for the derail and my apologies to Greg in Boston, but this is my real life experience. There may be exceptions but most government employees I've met are stupid and/or lazy.
 
And what about Deva?

I'd bet he already knows he's a bad ass!

LJ, not all gov. employees are bad. Just look at skwerl, deva, and me.


Skwerl summed it up real good. I am sorry if I seem like an ass, but I am not. I say these things based on my personal experience.
 
And I was just trying to razz the Squirrly man as my comments could easily be misinterpreted as well. Again in my experience is the key factor here. Exceptions to all rules exist.
 
LJ, not all gov. employees are bad. Just look at skwerl, deva, and me.


Skwerl summed it up real good. I am sorry if I seem like an ass, but I am not. I say these things based on my personal experience.

?

That's what I was saying, that Deva is the exception the rule, playing off Squishy's joke I thought.
 
Actually John, the numbers aren't that high. Quoted from the article Gigi posted,

That's 3 per year, or one every 4 months. In the entire United States. And we see idiots using unsafe methods while feeding chippers every day in every city and town in the country. I'm shocked the numbers are so low, because I see at least 4-5 people per year doing stuff that should, by all reasonable expectations, cause their premature death.


According to Dr John Ball's research the numbers are that high. One fatality every 2 weeks on average.
The number one killer being 'struck bys', electrocution, the occasional chipper defragmentation, traffic accidents, and believe it or not his research also claims one drowning. His research is particular to the tree care industry only. Not tree care and logging mixed together.
If you ever have the chance to see him speak it is well worth it, and quite eye opening.

And Frans I dont necessarily lose sleep over it either, and I certainly dont proclaim to myself why, why, why. You are right bad decisions, inattentiveness, and even complacency. But one thing these fatalities can do is constantly remind the rest of us to always be mindful, no matter what we do! In our line of work a second chance is rare and if you try to cheat just once it may be your last chance.

I dont want to come off as the ANSI police, but how do think our regulations are derived? Sure most everyone here knows how to and how not to feed a chipper and yet still live to chip another day. But I see so many unsafe practices everyday by so called professionals, having nothing to do with running a chipper.

Climbing for example- do you always tie in twice everytime you use a power saw?
Are you always secured at every instance?
Do you lean out of a bucket truck?
Do you always wear leg protection when running a saw on the ground?
Have you ever run a saw with an inoperable brake?
Do you ever one hand a saw?

I most certainly am not claiming that I do or have not ever done these things. But these too are all practices that can be very injurious and fatal, just the same as poor practices can be whilst running a chipper other equipment. Truth is everyone here, makes some type of short cut here or there and probably more often than they will admit to anyone else.

How many of you know someone who has fallen out of a tree?

I know several people personally, and they all made a foolish mistake of some sort or another, but most likely executed bad judgment leading to their fall. Some were plain cowboys and some were very skilled climbers, but nonetheless they all still fell because of their actions. I hear the particulars of how these falls happen and I think to myself "what were they thinking?" obviously they weren't.

My point is, no matter what we do, we all face risks in our jobs, more than most. Stop paying attention for one second and meet your maker.
To say someone is stupid because they were pulled through a chipper is like saying someone is stupid for falling out of a tree, or getting a chainsaw kickback, or getting a struck by, or getting electrocuted. It can happen, and when you realize it can happen you will be better prepared to avoid those situations altogether. Sure there are plenty of dumasses who are stupid and do stupid things everyday and are just asking for it, but id be willing to bet that not EVERY fatality was not some dumb ass who had it coming.

I challenge each and every one of you to critique yourself on everything you do to protect yourself from injury or fatality, and be honest with yourself about it (cuz thats who it really matters too). I think you will be surprised to find we all can do more to protect ourselves. And if you ever think your safe, you are wrong!

I could go through many of the pictures in threads here and find countless acts of safety violations of some sort or another. Even from those of you (myself included) with years of experience and proper training to boot.

rant over
 
and Frans I dont think you or anyone else here is an ass. (OK there is an ass or two) :)

Just remember bad things happen to good people all the time.

None of us are exempt!!
 
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