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lxskllr

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What's wrong that? IMO, they were a little obsessive regarding the hinge, and a little light showing the cuts being made, but it looks reasonable to me.
 

Bodean

Cali dreamer
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Dont be jealous they didnt invite you.

Ken and Rip are the OG's of trainers.
I met Rip years ago at Arbormasters in Stanford... and this year at TCIA it was an honor to chat with Ken.

Legends.
 

murphy4trees

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OK you gotta start with the very 1st sentence out of this guys mouth he wants the hinge to work until this tree is on the ground.

that is complete nonsense you don't need a lot of hinge control for a front leaner.
It's actually fairly rare that you need the hinge to control a tree all the way

Generally by the time a tree is 45゚ and the hinge closes on a traditional notches, it's going to take another 10゚ to break the hinge at that point the momentum of the tree will carry it to the lay in almost all scenarios
 

lxskllr

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First point I agree. Second point, maybe. Since it's apparently supposed to be instructional, they could just be providing food for thought if the "student" has a bigger problem than a slight side lean. The pointer? Meh... It's a "classroom" scenario. Pointer, hand, scrench, whatever... That didn't register on my care-o-meter.

edit:
Perhaps they wanted the hinge intact to prevent fiber pull?
 

stig

Patron saint of bore-cutters
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Also, they made a precise, clean facecut in what looks like 2 cuts.
That, if one looks at your way of doing things, is just dead wrong.
Why don't you work on getting the simple basics right, like filing a saw and matching cuts, before you start crapping on other people's videos.
Wan't me to start posting pictures of your stumps like Rico does at Treebuzz?
 

murphy4trees

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Also, they made a precise, clean facecut in what looks like 2 cuts.
That, if one looks at your way of doing things, is just dead wrong.
Why don't you work on getting the simple basics right, like filing a saw and matching cuts, before you start crapping on other people's videos.
Wan't me to start posting pictures of your stumps like Rico does at Treebuzz?
Sure, I'll stand by my stumps.. the only reason he has them is that I posted pics of them in the first place. I could post pics of straight hinges all day long if I bothered taking a picture of a normal stump. Is it that hard to understand that I don't post pictures or videos of normal cutting or rigging operations much because I would find that boring? I post pictures and video of unusual, interesting, or outside the box cutting and rigging. Rico doesn't understand how and why the cuts were made. He just throws mud on all occasions and is happy to fabricate shamelessly.

AND YOU DON"T KNOW HOW RIP'S CUTS EWERE MADE BECAUSE HE DOESN"T SHOW THE PROCESS! We don't even know that Rip made the cuts himself. Once again you are making assumptions that are filtered through your perceptions, that is the way you see the world. So I'd rather you post pics of your own stumps.

I never said making a clean face cut in two cuts is dead wrong! I said, it's not necessary to make a clean face in two cuts for an arborist, who may only be making a few face cuts a day, whereas even 30 seconds extra per face cut could add up to some serious time for a logger. That said, for those that can't make a perfect face cut every time (which is the majority of professional arborists) using the plate cut can actually save time, rather than going and re-cutting to match cuts, or getting a hammer to pound out the pie cut. It's a fantasy to think that arborists are all going to be properly trained to making perfect face cuts. It's never going to happen here in the US. My technique can not only be faster in reality (not in some fantasy world of perfect cutting), but it allows the hinge fibers to have extra strength and its much easier to see what's going on in the apex, so there is no accidental bypass that fills with sawdust and escapes detection.
 

treesmith

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AND YOU DON"T KNOW HOW RIP'S CUTS EWERE MADE BECAUSE HE DOESN"T SHOW THE PROCESS! We don't even know that Rip made the cuts himself.
Kind of like you insisting no one knew how you made your notch-less cuts? No proof YOU made those cuts....
 

murphy4trees

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This is the cut Rico loves to bust on. It was a fairly complicated cut, right around 4 feet diameter co-dom stems, with a 24" bar. I had to rip the crotch down to chest level. Getting there wasn't pretty, but I stand by the finished product. No proof I made this cut either, but I swear it's true. short bar notch co dom white oak.jpg short bar notch close up.jpg
 

murphy4trees

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First point I agree. Second point, maybe. Since it's apparently supposed to be instructional, they could just be providing food for thought if the "student" has a bigger problem than a slight side lean. The pointer? Meh... It's a "classroom" scenario. Pointer, hand, scrench, whatever... That didn't register on my care-o-meter.

edit:
Perhaps they wanted the hinge intact to prevent fiber pull?
Then there is Ken Saying "the stump really tells the tale", but rather than show the severed hinge, they show a nail and talk about how long it must have been in the tree. AM I the only one that sees a lot of useless info published when many things that could have value to educate, are completely ignored?
 
Last edited:

treesmith

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I hit an old come-a-long while ALAP-ing a forked sweet gum stump two weeks ago....ruined one chain and actually broke another. I cut a couple of feet above the fork to fell the trees, then ALAPed afterward. Hinges worked fine, but I went away wanting to slap whomever stuck that come-a-long in there all those years ago. I didn't pat myself on the back with congratulatory praise for my hinges. I was seeing cost of chains....
 

treesmith

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"Without a wasted word......"........NOT.

Reminds me of Nicky Augustine's quote regarding Boyd Crowder....."Man, I love the way you talk... using 40 words where 4 will do".
 

treesmith

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Fast and efficient? Using 3-4 cuts to form your notch instead of 2? Sorry. Not my definition of fast and efficient.
 

murphy4trees

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"Without a wasted word......"........NOT.

Reminds me of Nicky Augustine's quote regarding Boyd Crowder....."Man, I love the way you talk... using 40 words where 4 will do".
I talk to the lowest common denominator. Not everyone is a seasoned pro. When a seasoned pro takes it like I AM talking down to them and gets all offended, its because they are so self-centered that can't get that it's not always about them!

per these comments:

Eric Conner9 months ago
As a newb to this skill set ( just bought a house with land a trees, these videos are a wealth of knowledge and very appreciated. Especially since you explain it well and don’t talk down to a chump like me. Thank you , Daniel.

Matthew Polo9 months ago
INTERESTING VID..I LIKE THAT TECHNIQUE RIPPIN THE MIDDLE AND TAKING TWO PIECES..NEVER SEEN THAT TILL NOW.. THE NARRATION IS KEY..THANKS FOR KEEPING US INFORMED.

Andrew Healy7 months ago
Super video Daniel. I'm in Valley Forge on the mountain and have this exact same situation with my 18" bar on a 22 inch trunk and was unsure if the smaller bar was feasible. Thanks
 

treesmith

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I get that, but I don't care to "educate" folks that don't know what they're doing. I don't care to have someone get hurt due to some "training" video I tried to "educate" them with.

As to the last comment quoted above, I love it when customers on cut-it-and-leave-it jobs ask me to cut them trunk up for them because they only have a 20" bar on their saw....so I cut it up for them with an 18" bar.
 

murphy4trees

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Fast and efficient? Using 3-4 cuts to form your notch instead of 2? Sorry. Not my definition of fast and efficient.
In the case of this pine tree, it took 7 seconds to make the initial intentionally high floor cut on the face, which opens up a complete line of sight on the entire face. On short bar cuts, this often saves the trouble of having to walk around the tree to match cuts. And how many times have we seen guys reach for the ax to pound out the pie cut. When the plate cut is finished, you have some height to the fibers at the front of the hinge, which adds a lot of extra holding ability to the hinge. So ya, fast and efficient.

If you can do better, please show us!

 

treesmith

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I get paid to cut trees, not shoot video. I will refrain from further comments on your stuff.
 
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