Clean up Techniques

Wow its threads like this that piss me off. What kind of man thinks so highly of himself and so little of the folks he works with that the attitude is bomb it down, frig em, they are not equal to me anyway. Nice attitude.
Since I train treemen, not climbers and not groundguys, we don't have the issues that exist still on a lot of tree crews. Its called teamwork folks. If you want to shitpile the crew then get down and help untangle the jackpot that was made fine. But to ratbastard the guys just so you can get out of the tree, negative, thats not how brothers work together. Is it saddle time thats hurts? What do you do if its a rigging removal in a tight dz? Break shit? Climber/Ground bullshit, can't have one going smooth without the other goddammit!:X :evil:
 
Yeah, it's teamwork, alright. As long as it's all in sync. A crew that has worked together for some time can acommplish that on most jobs. But when it gets out of sync and the chipper is just running to burn fuel I can get a little turbed. Tell the guys, "shut that thing down, please!"

On one big job working with the entire Eegger Beaver crew , I had a good groundie under me, roping and lowering into the hole, Grunts waiting eagerly to drag brush to a running chipper, stump grinder running at the same time, two saws running and a splitter (wood guys) I couldn't communicate with my groundie. There was just too much racket going on down below. That was one of the most frustrating moments in my entire career.

If it were just the groundie, brush crew and me it would have been a lot easier.
 
To clarify- I was a groundie for years before becoming a climber, and I aint no Prima Donna, Im not afraid to hump brush or feed the chipper, in fact do it more than I should being the owner.
I simply do what is most efficient....determined by the site and surrounding conditions. And normally, that means= tree down faster= more money.
If you had a flopper, would you flop it or climb it? Of course you would flop it and help clean up and move to the next job. Again, tree down faster= more money. Now is hammering it down going to hinder or slow ground operations?
 
When I started, the way I saw it was the more time I spent aloft, them more time I was at the highest risk and they were at a higher risk (couldn't run a saw for chit).

Then I got to where me and Daniel could really get to flying, he'd stack stuff out of the way and I'd get back to terra firma.

Now that I have a chip truck/chipper/mini and lift, I work alone alot. I still bomb everything to the ground and assault it at once. If it's one tree that I can get on one load I load the trunk first, then spray the chips in, which I find much easier.
 
friend of mine has a crew where all three guys can do it all. Seems to work good and be very flexible. Have heard of other successful operations that do that and do well.
 
wiley_p said:
What kind of man thinks so highly of himself and so little of the folks he works with that the attitude is bomb it down, frig em, they are not equal to me anyway. Nice attitude.
.......... Its called teamwork folks........ Climber/Ground bullshit, can't have one going smooth without the other goddammit!:X :evil:
Click to expand...

Sorry but they are not equal. They pick up sticks for beer money. That and my time is simply worth more than theirs. This is evidenced by what the market will pay for my time.

I won't bury the lads but I will make it easier on me. I either prefer big pieces when possible, letting them clean/process while I reposition for another big piece. That of small and flake a lot of small stuff fast, pausing to left them clear the area somewhat.

Yes, it is team work, but there is a leader. Yes, a good ground crew is golden.

Maybe my head is that way from my last gig. I was a climber. My job, climb and put is on the ground...then drive away.......not a climber/raker/brush dragger.....
 
working in a confined space, rigging out a tree, gotta keep the site clean and safe. Cant be working with ropes tangled and trapped under brush. Open space, let the climber bang it out , then clear a load up, bang out some more. Groundies not worth as much as a climber???? WTF planet are some of you on??? No wonder they aint any good with this sort of attitude! Seems to me that some climbers are too far up their own asses. Its about teamwork, pure and simple, a good team earns good money, a poor one bad money. Get over it!!:)
 
The answer to the question of is it faster or slower to create a pile or to clean as you go depends on the job.

There is no one way to do it and if you are doing it only one way, then you are not working smart.

In my town this guy has a big beautiful truck and chipper. He keeps it so clean you can eat off it.
He likes to park it far away from the job so it doesn't get dirty and make the groundies drag brush to it. Sometimes from very far away
 
I've never worked with a good/experienced groundsmen so I guess that makes my view certainly a little biased/uneducated. I do quite a few jobs alone and even if I am lucky enough to have a unexperienced grounds person with me obviously it's my job so I'm working until the last twig is raked. That's kind of my point as ignorant as it sounds for me without the groundsperson I can still get the job done granted nothing very technical but without the climber?

I'd agree what I'm striving to work towards is a small crew were everyone climbs or cleans. Spread it out, no primadonnas but everyone will be equal because everyone will climb.
 
Squish, everyone on my crew can climb. Everyone works together and there is no prima donna bullshit.
 
Maybe I may sound like the prima dona climber type, but I've spent as much or more time dragging brush than climbing and I never intentionally try to make the ground work any harder than absolutely necessary. But since I no longer work with any good ground crews, I've gotten even less willing to continually try to make life easier for guys who don't give a crap. And most of the time if I stop to allow them time to catch up, they just continue to stand there and watch me anyway. They are unwilling to do anything underneath me until I am completely finished. So the best thing I can do is get it finished so they can get to work.

This is probably one of the only aspects of treework that I miss since focusing on subcontracting only. I miss working with a good skilled groundman where we can read each other's minds and anticipate the other's moves. It ceases being work and becomes more like a graceful dance, with limbs flying and ropes singing and everybody in sync.
:)

So in conclusion I guess the groundman will dictate how I plan the job. I'll work with any groundman willing to work with me. But if you wanna stand there and watch then I'm gonna bury you and we can unscramble it once i'm down. :D
 
Skwerl said:
working with a good skilled groundman where we can read each other's minds and anticipate the other's moves. It ceases being work and becomes more like a graceful dance, with limbs flying and ropes singing and everybody in sync.
:)
Click to expand...

Brendon, This is what you and your brother should be working towards. Once you establish this the sky is the limit.
 
When I got settled here in Montana I started reaching out to the tree guys, just to let them know I was around if they needed a hand.

Rejected by all.

Finally I get a call from The Tree Man. I was to help remove a row of about 13 Russian olive(windbreak). Just he and I.

First thing he told me was not to touch his saws, he did all the sawing. Not a problem, they were homeowner Sthils anyway. I was to chip brush.

I really wanted to show this treeman what I was made of so I busted my butt...I wanted to impress the guy no dought.

I rock n rolled ...had the brush chipped and the firewood loaded before he had the stumps ground. He was pissed because I was watching him work I think.

He would take breaks to blow his bucket truck off...blew his saw off a few times along with the 15hp. dosko stumpgrinder. He was killing time, he bids his jobs as an hourly thing I guess and had plans for a two day gig.

He paid me 100 bucks for about a 9hr day of bustin ass and never called me back.


He knows.
 
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We did a little job the other day in a church yard, myself and my mate Dan each had a tree to work on, he had a roof under him, I had phone lines and some rather old, ornate grave stones under mine, I had Dans wife and Paul on the ground clearing as I cut, Dan bombed his out, my tree took two hours and had been pretty much cleared when I hit the deck, Dans tree took two hours to cut the two further hours to chip the next day.
 
I always help with cleanup, no matter how many trees I'd been up. It says something to those you're working with... you show them that you value what they are doing when you get down and drag, too. I teach the new groundies how to stack three to four pieces so they can drag them easily. Once they have the area well-fanned out with these lift-able small piles, the chipper runs minimally to clear them. The hearing protectors with the 2-way radios built into them are a good investment. A 9v battery per day if all the equipment is running keeps you sane and in communication with your groundperson. Then if you are rigged and ready they can leave the chipper and manage the lowering line. The larger chipper with the winch can make it possible to keep the brush cleared efficiently and create less tangle underfoot. Respect builds self esteem and when you show respect you are typically rewarded by an increased likelihood that your ground team will work harder. A desire to do better grows commensurate with the attitude with which you approach your employees.
As to the fellow who keeps his 'clean' truck far away from the mess... he needs to reassess his priorities. When we are taking lunch or finished for the day (when working with someone new) usually we'll end up leaning on or sitting on my truck. It's at that point that I'll brusquely warn the new guy not to scuff my paint job. I always get a puzzled look as the old 1987 beast is quite faded and sporting some rust, too. :)
Be safe up there...
 
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