Breaking Stig's Rules about making a face cut in 2 cuts

[murphy4trees]

Stig recently called another topping cut "shoddy work" because the photo of the face showed that it had more than 2 cuts used to make the face.
In the above video, it takes less than 5 seconds to make the intentionally high first bottom cut of the face (from 6:12-6:17). This allows the seconds cut to come slightly below the top cut (not bypassing) and by simply lifting the bar, a plate of wood is broken off leaving some length to the front of the hinge fibers. I made this cut up and have called it the plate cut, after originally calling it the double-cut notch.

It's well understood by west coast fallers that the block cut offers superior holding ability because it creates length to the hinge fibers at the front of the hinge (apex of the notch). The plate cut is simply a technique used to gain a similar advantage with a quick and easy method. To me, that's just common sense, and it's astounding to me that Stig is so far stuck in the box of orthodoxy that he can't see the advantages of this cut and the ease in which it is made. Instead, he calls it shoddy work. While its tough to tell if such criticisms are just a personal bias or an honest assessment, such criticisms do not deter me from promoting this method. I've been using this cut for over a decade and have repeatedly seen the additional control one gains from having some length to the hinge fibers at the front of the hinge, and have heard feedback from others who have likewise been highly impressed with the results. The rewards to this technique in many suburban falling scenarios far outweigh the additional time and energy inputs (average extra time is about 20 seconds)

The above video was originally shot in 2009. NO ONE was posting video of taking such big tops back then!

 

[stig]

As I see it, your " plate cut" is a crutch for people who can't do it right.

I don't know what you call those little extra wheels on kiddy bicycles, that help them keep upright until they learn to ride a real bike.

I deal with plenty of that stuff when teaching apprentices.
The forestry school teaches them to walk around the tree and do a vertical mark in both sides, where they want their hinge.
Then when doing the back cut, they know when to stop.

Fine thing, but they don't tell them it is "training wheels" ( For lack of a better word, did I mention English is not my native language? )

So, once they get comfortable with falling, which usually takes about a month, I tell them that I won't see them doing that again.
Lo and behold, all of a sudden they can set up a hinge more or less perfectly.

Your beloved "plate cut" is training wheels.
Something for people who can't cut right, which should be thrown overboard as soon as the person behind the saw has picked up the necessary skills.

 

[murphy4trees]

We are in different businesses brother Stig.

When my life is on the line, I'll spend the extra few seconds to get more control from the hinge. Do you understand the gap face has extra holding ability? And that this cut gets a similar effect for a whole lot less effort?

In the above case that was a 5 second differential. What you call a crutch, I call low cost insurance!!!

I wonder how your apprentices would feel about taking that big tulip top on a backleaning tulip with 80% decay at the base.

 

[stig]

Daniel, we don't work out of buckets.
We log and the arborist work we do, is climbing only.
We had one exception this year and I posted pictures of that.
Ended up sending the bucket home and climbing the rest.

I've always felt that buckets are for those who are too old and fat to climb.
In the US you have WAY better accaess than we do in old Europe.
Hence the huge chippers and all the bucket trucks.
Most places here, you can't get them in.

 

[murphy4trees]

I AM faster in a bucket than anyone on a rope and saddle... ANYONE!

Your attitude shows what a limited view you have.

That said I was on rope and saddle for the above video, which you must not have watched

Forward the link to your apprentices and see if they call me fat, lazy doing shoddy work!

 

[lumberjack]

In the certain circumstances performing certain work, mainly limited to where you can easily access the work, sure.

 

[Sven]

And your cuts are worse than most pros, WORSE!

 

[murphy4trees]

And your cuts are worse than most pros, WORSE!

which cuts, in particular, are you referring to?


And please show some of your work so we know what kind of man we are in a conversation with.

Oh and since that is your first post, welcome to the treehouse

 

[Jonny]

Welcome Sven, good to read you here
If he’s who I think he is from TB, he’s already got some friends and online acquaintances here. Seems very knowledgeable about the business with the usual climbing, cutting, and rigging we all love as well as some plant health care and forestry stuff.

 

[Sven]

Here’s a mild side leaner felled inbetween a high stump I left house side, incase it kicked that way, and an old tipped root plate farther down
Two back leaners by a camp. The stump is the right one whose stem was almost touching the roof. Notice the relief cut on the left to prevent a tear down the buttress which would pull the tree off the intended lay.

I didn’t take pictures of a stump which was unintentionally high on one side, or one where I missed the shot by a few feet. Still learning, which is why I joined, and thanks for the welcome.

 

[murphy4trees]

Great. This site could use a fresh voice.

One suggestion would be ... if you really want to learn, reserve your judgment and open your mind

 

[SeanKroll]

MY FRIEND WAS BETTER THAN ANYONE AT CUT AND CHUCKING A TREE!!!!!

ANYONE!!!!!

ANYONE!!!!

He'd have told you so, again and again, and again, and again the same way.
Nothing could dissuade him.

Also has significant mental health issues, LOTS OF MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES!!

BETTER MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES THAN ANYONE!!


His NICKNAME WAS EVEN
"CRAZY MIKE".

IF Crazy Mike says DON'T DO IT, then DON'T DO IT.


Crazy Mike was a hack and a legend in his own mind. Terrible tree man. Great Friend. Terrible Tree Man. Dangerous AF. Etc ETC.






I heard an interesting and fitting term recently about Trump. He has an infallibility complex. Trump has never been wrong, just ask him.

 

[SeanKroll]

Stig, the crutch you're talking about are called "training wheels".

I make big face-cuts in 6 cuts, 7 sometimes. Two parellel kerfs, accurately. go to the other side of the tree. Make two more cuts to complete the full gap's horizontals. Bore in from both sides, accurately. cut a snipe. 7 cuts.

otherwise its 2. Basic tree work... Facecuts.

 

[pete mctree]

Great. This site could use a fresh voice.

One suggestion would be ... if you really want to learn, reserve your judgment and open your mind

We could too. Your pathetic self a grandiose attitude and 3rd rate tree work really grows thin. Can't you go find some worshippers elsewhere - arboristsite for example or treebuzz or have they seen through your bullshit too?

 

[Tree09]

"I thought i was wrong once, but i was mistaken"

 

[murphy4trees]

We could too. Your pathetic self a grandiose attitude and 3rd rate tree work really grows thin. Can't you go find some worshippers elsewhere - arboristsite for example or treebuzz or have they seen through your bullshit too?

You're not even close.. WTF have you done? .. you'd lose your license if you pulled off one tenth of the cuts I've shown on YouTube. You criticize what you don't understand. You Brits are stuck in some rule book made for rookies that I have long since transcended.

I can put up 10 videos that show things that had never been shown before at the time they were published and many haven't still to this day.

Here's one showing throwing the top of a lightning-struck pine, 21" diameter, about 35' tall that cleared a hedge 17' away. The impact divet measured 22' from the stump.
No one before or since has show throwing that big a top, that far, from such a low height. At the time, (2011) most arborists in the world wouldn't have thought it was even possible. DO you have anything to show that comes close to showing this type of extraordinary feat? Or do you just run your mouth with nothing?

 

[pete mctree]

And onto ignore he goes - your delusional self adulation is too much!

 

[murphy4trees]

Stig, the crutch you're talking about are called "training wheels".

I make big face-cuts in 6 cuts, 7 sometimes. Two parellel kerfs, accurately. go to the other side of the tree. Make two more cuts to complete the full gap's horizontals. Bore in from both sides, accurately. cut a snipe. 7 cuts.

otherwise its 2. Basic tree work... Facecuts.

Did you use that basic tree work facecut to drop that tree on your chipper, or the block cut with the snipe?

 

[murphy4trees]

And onto ignore he goes - your delusional self adulation is too much!

if you want to run your mouth, all I ask is that you show me SOMETHING... ANYTHING

Otherwise good riddance

Sven had the decency to post up a couple of pics when asked.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

Yeah, no one has ever done that........

 

[murphy4trees]

That's 2017... you're 6 years late to the party!

And you have my full and complete respect. I forget exactly which video it was, but you threw some monster top into a super tight LZ perfectly. STANDING OVATION!

You are the real deal for taking tops.

 

[murphy4trees]

Biggest, tallest, heaviest back leaner that has ever been stood up on video in a suburban setting:



that's two .. I can keep going...

 

[murphy4trees]

#3)

Remote trip swing...
NO one had any idea this could even be done when I published it. Notice the lack of comments... only one comment with 1,400 views.
Its so far above everyone's head they don't know what to say...
When it was put up here, people had to ask how it was done.

 

[Mick!]

Just an idea.

Why don’t you start one thread with all your vids, rather than inventing reasons to post them all the time?
Keep them all in one place, like August does.

Then we’ll all know where they are and won’t miss any of them.

 

[lxskllr]

Then we’ll all know where they are and won’t miss any of them.