100+ Octane Racing Fuel Heaven

Thanks fellas, that makes sense.

I remember driving up to Leadville from the west coast in a 69 VW truck. We had to stop and adjust the carb to make it up the mountain.

Auto-tune saws don't seem to work here either...
 
That we do for sure!


On the subject of octane..
Ethanol is a octane booster...

Pressure in chamber is not limited or very affected by atmospheric pressures. Lots of tests and study show that.
It is created by compression and density of fuel air mix.
Too high density and flame takes to long to burn = Low rpm. It may create more power/energy, but you loose that gain in lost of revolutions and fuel consumption.
 
Levi said:
Auto-tune saws don't seem to work here either...
Click to expand...
They have a ability to adapt fast and "learn" so the fuel system it self is not the issue.
These saws don't work here and I am on sea level or under mostly. I can go on quite a bit about this....
 
Everyone is assuming that ethanol/alcohol is the culprit. It is not really correct as you can run saws on it pretty well. E-85 and higher has been tested here on saws.
It has no power, environmental or economical gain really and very hard to get a oil that work well, but still it is not that that is the issue.

80% of the two stroke oils sold here in my area today will not mix with alcohol.

We run premixed Alkylate fuel in saws mostly so it is not a big problem here. All pro's use Alkylate. Perhaps 10% of my customers mix fuel (home owners/farmers).
 
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  • #31
Magnus said:
Everyone is assuming that ethanol/alcohol is the culprit. It is not really correct as you can run saws on it pretty well. E-85 and higher has been tested here on saws.
It has no power, environmental or economical gain really and very hard to get a oil that work well, but still it is not that that is the issue.

80% of the two stroke oils sold here in my area today will not mix with alcohol.

We run premixed Alkylate fuel in saws mostly so it is not a big problem here. All pro's use Alkylate. Perhaps 10% of my customers mix fuel (home owners/farmers).
Click to expand...

Alright Mag mate, I'll bite.

If ethanol's not the culprit effin with today's chainsaws?

Then why's Stihl marketing moto mix guaranteed ethanol free, high octane premix that'll last a year on the shelf?

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/premixed-fuel/motomix/

Jomo
 
Is there a better source for premix besides the $10 can at the shop?
 
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  • #33
Kinduva vicious circle Levi, by the time you run down an aviation or racing fuel outlet like Sunoco?

http://racegas.com/fuelfinder

You're payin 9 bucks a gallon, then buying the Silver bottled Stihl Ultra Synthetic mix, puttin you right back at ten bucks a gallon to stay on the pipe n revin right!

It's tax deductible, so why not feed them the best?

Jomo
 
I don't know what it is you got over there in USA, but Stihl Motomix here is Alkylate fuel, same as Aspen. Costs about $3,50-4US / liter.
Not same fuel type petrol/gas as we have in the pumps regardless of Ethanol.

You can run your saw on Ethanol. You need to find a oil that mix with it, but after that you can run E-85 even if the carb can deliver enough of it.
It has been done here.

A two stroke that work is not environmentally correct or fuel efficient. It creates a good deal of power/kg engine with few parts. Thats it!
Going against these principles is fun and interesting, but the laws of physics will not be changed by Stihl or Husqvarna.
The saws today are running hot, lean and that is creating issues. The fresh air engines is not working right as they are lean and run too hot.
RPMs is chased so high that there is little time for flame to burn completely. Why that is I don't know...
 
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  • #35
Are you inferring any similarities between alkylate n ethanol Mag?

One's great for chainsaws, the other ef's them up, IME.

Jomo
 
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  • #36
Holy Mackeral!

My racing fuel costs 1/3 the cost of Stihl's moto mix at the saw shop!

And here I thought I was splurgin big coin to feed me darlins!

8 bucks a quart's 32 bucks a friggin gallon...

Jomo
 
Jomo said:
Are you inferring any similarities between alkylate n ethanol Mag?

One's great for chainsaws, the other ef's them up, IME.

Jomo
Click to expand...
No I am not comparing them as they are as different as Diesel and gas or vodka and wine.

What exactly is it that your experience is telling Ethanol is bad?

What if I told you that you can run E85 in a 346 if it has a carb that allow more fuel in air mix. Would that put a dent in your thoughts?
A bit tricky to find a good oil that mix with it, but there is oils that do..
 
Alkylate is not all sun and roses, but it is a better fuel and those using it have no fuel issues to speak of. No affects from running it. Hell I run it indoors at times..
We have several different brands here, Aspen has about 80% of market, mostly as it was a Husqvarna product, got fast out in to market as all stores got it and have it.
Now it's independent, separated from Elux/Husqvarna.

Biggest problem with different fuels is that people don't know enough to NOT tinker with it and experiment.
Same go for shifting oils and mixes in general as the fuels change property's there will be affects and consequences.

When shifting fuel IME it is done when starting up new saws or really cleaned, rebuilt saws.

I have customers coming here whining after fuel changes regularly. Mostly as they were not prepared for the differences and consequences.

Even a simple thing as a change of twostroke oil can have much unwanted affects if not done right.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #39
Magnus said:
No I am not comparing them as they are as different as Diesel and gas or vodka and wine.

What exactly is it that your experience is telling Ethanol is bad?

What if I told you that you can run E85 in a 346 if it has a carb that allow more fuel in air mix. Would that put a dent in your thoughts?
A bit tricky to find a good oil that mix with it, but there is oils that do..
Click to expand...

The fact that the folks at Stihl avoid it like the plague, by guaranteeing moto mix has no ethanol in it whatsoever, and that using moto mix exclusively'll double their saws factory warranties?

Jomo
 
Alkylate fuel makes up about 12 percent of the total US gasoline production. We just dont get it at the pump in a pure form.

The regulations are such that a blend used in Montana would not be sold to California. Everyone makes different rules, from the EPA to state environmental orgs. to local regulations.

Would be cool to be able to buy it though. Some areas sell fuel without Ethanol, some are not allowed to. Especially areas that require an oxygenate be added. A derivative of Ethanol is ETBE, but it is not widely used.

Probably the vast majority of small engines in the US run ethanol, with few problems.

I know you like your racing fuel Jomo, and if you think it helps, than it probably does. I just am not keen on the idea of lead. I cant remember if the gas you buy is leaded or not.
 
Ethanol free is like everything being gluten free.

A tiny percentage of people/engines cant tolerate gluten/ethanol, but we all know its bad right? So we buy all the ethanol free/ gluten free we can. Marketing trick probably.
 
Jomo said:
The fact that the folks at Stihl avoid it like the plague, by guaranteeing moto mix has no ethanol in it whatsoever, and that using moto mix exclusively'll double their saws factory warranties?

Jomo
Click to expand...
Is the fuel sold as Motomix in USA same as here a Alkylate fuel?

It is pretty simple, if you make saws and want them to run in a certain area, they should run on the fuel used or supply fuel to use.

If there is Ethanol in fuel or not is not really important if it works, right? So if fuel isn't working, what is it that isn't working, what is to do so it works?

There is lots of components used in a fuel sold in gas stations here. The Alkylate fuel we have here is not blended with other stuff, no benzene, no fat acids...
 
Jomo said:
I trust the chainsaw mechs at Madsen's Saw&Supply.

And their take on E85 fuel?

Nyet, and they've got pics of gum jelly plugged carbs n fried Pistons to prove it!

Jomo
Click to expand...
Yes, they will see that if you change from other fuels.
But not if they have a new saw adapted for it with a oil that can mix with it. Saw must get 10% more fuel or so.
They ran 5 adapted 346's here in a test for 8 months on it if I remember correct.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #45
At 8 bucks a quart?

It better perform miracles regardless of borders!

I'm fairly certain it's the same stuff Mag.

Jomo
 
It'll turn it into a minion of Satan, I've heard.

Running only alkylate, I've never had to call in an exorcist for any of my saws, which is well worth the higher price IMO.
 
FireFighterZero said:
Magnus, what about the saleswoman at our Stihl shop that warned me against switching to silver "premium Stihl oil" from orange "regular Stihl oil"? She said it would ruin my chainsaw.
Click to expand...
Pretty much what I talk about here as well, regardless of what is switched...
Don't switch unless it is new stuff or prepared...
 
The names and brands of oil is not important really, it is the content and property's of the oil.
Not all oils get along..

Some clean house after the previous oil and saw go kaboom.

Who is to blame? Old oil, new oil, seller, operator or crappy saw?
 
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