Where the Pavement Ends

[lumberjack]

I had a thread about my Can-Am Outlander, but I figured I'd start another thread for off roading in general. Off ROading is my main hobby currently, I got back into it in January of this year.


Here's a hill climb video from today:
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Here is a couple video's of the Can Am and other's riding:
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This is the four wheeler, a 2011 Can-Am Outlander 800. 32" Silver Backs, Looney Tuned Exhaust, STM Clutches, Rhino Axles...

This is my side by side, a 2012 Polaris RZR S (Pronounced razor). Basically stock aside from being snorkled and having Trail Armor's skid system under it.

Obviously my four wheeler is for mud; my goal is to set the RZR up for crawling/hill climbs/etc.


Who else has mud in their blood (or rocks/sand/other non paved surface)?

 

[gf beranek]

Looks like a spinal injury waiting to happen, to me. Sorry I'm just old and seen too many young people get hurt on those things playing around.

 

[lumberjack]

Using the seat belt to keep you in the cage is a must. I'll be upgrading the cage and going to 4 or 5 point harnesses.

While that hill was quite steep, it was still easily inside the machine's comfort zone. I have the suspension set up with climbing and stability in mind. I have 12"of travel at each corner, with nearly 8"of that in droop/ my ride height is as low as possible.

I'll be stretching my wheelbase 3"to allow larger tires without running any additional lift as well as improve my approach/ departure angles and increase my longitudinal stability.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

When I get my Willyz back up to playing... I'll post some Carl... I am more of a conservative 4wd type though...
I try not to get stuck...

 

[Burnham]

The resource damage turns my stomach. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. I wouldn't presume to tell you to do differently.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

I have marked trails and roads all over the sierras that I prefer to adhere to

 

[MasterBlaster]

How does the engine run underwater???

 

[Burnham]

I have marked trails and roads all over the sierras that I prefer to adhere to

Designated routes don't curtail the damge, only localize it.

Sorry, my enviro bones are showing. Soil and water are non-renewable resources.

I'll shut up now...as you were, gentlemen.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

You do have a valid point Burnam. I can not dispute there is a foot print no matter on even forestry service roads.

 

[Old Monkey]

For me it depends on where. Around here its high desert and the tracks stay an awful long time. You can still see where horse drawn wagons crossed Idaho headed for Oregon.

 

[Burnham]

You can still see the same wagon's tracks in western Oregon, too. High desert or rain forest, the footprint lives long.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

We uncover old roads all the time from the miner years when we brush out properties. HOs use them for hiking about their property when we clear them. Last a long time they do.

 

[top_notch]

That four wheeler looks like one bad ass machine! Is it pretty much paddling its way through the bog in the second video? It looks like it is almost floating when you hit the gas. Looks fun, but I would probably kill my self on a machine that strong and fast.

 

[stig]

I'm with Burnham on this.

We have outlawed them here.
You want to run one for fun, do it on your own property.

We get more than enough erosion damage from the frigging mountain bikers.

 

[sawinredneck]

I used to play in the Suburban all the time, but with it being my only vehicle breaking it Saturday night then spending all day Sunday patching it back together got old fast! It's also an expensive hobby!

 

[lumberjack]

The resource damage turns my stomach. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. I wouldn't presume to tell you to do differently.

Designated routes don't curtail the damge, only localize it.

Sorry, my enviro bones are showing. Soil and water are non-renewable resources.

I'll shut up now...as you were, gentlemen.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but what resources were damaged?

How does the engine run underwater???

Both of those machines are snorkled, the four wheeler is snorkled up to gage pod in front of the handle bars. The RZR is snorkled to shoulder height, which are the three pipes sticking up between the seats in the first video. When the four wheeler's exhaust is that low, and that I'm running a dual exhaust system, I have to keep the RPMs up to keep the back pressure on the exhaust from stalling the engine.

That four wheeler looks like one bad ass machine! Is it pretty much paddling its way through the bog in the second video? It looks like it is almost floating when you hit the gas. Looks fun, but I would probably kill my self on a machine that strong and fast.

The bike does try to float some, especially in the front. With regards to power, I can lean my weight as far forward as I can over the handle bars and I can still use my thumb to lift the front end.


When I went riding Saturday night it was around 28-30*, there was a little ice on the water in the ruts and ice was forming on the RZR. We got down to the creek they were curious how deep the water was. I had no intention of getting wet as my only water gear was rubber boots. The water was roughly 40' wide and I was nearly to the far bank with the water barely on my floor boards when I found a hole or something (sand/silt bar) and went down quick! I tried to stand up in the cage but you can only get so high The water was up to my belly button when standing and we were 3-4 miles from the truck, it was a cold ride back!


I'm not sure, but I think this is after we pushed it back forward as much as we could (prior to winching) as the headlights were under water.

 

[Burnham]

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but what resources were damaged?

Well, in the field of natural resource management, erosion and subsequent sediment transport into waterways is generally accepted to be extremely detrimental to both site productivity and water quality. Your videos seem to show both in spades, Carl. Sub-surface hydrologic function in disrupted by compaction and rutting, which can impact aquifer flows and water table depths. I'm seeing those factors as well.

I said I wasn't going to try to get you to change your choices of recreational activity, and I'm not. There's plenty enough of environmental zealotry to go around. But I sure hate to see us doing damage to the things that provide us with a decent life, and water to drink and soil to grow crops and trees sure fall into that category, for me.

We humans tend to be rather short-sighted, as a generalization.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Dumb that first paragraph down for me, B. You think I'm Carl orrrrrrrr something?

I don't see the damage, eidder.

 

[Burnham]

Ok, Butch...mud fricks up the water. When the water is all fricked up, we die.

 

[MasterBlaster]

From that 'lil spot? It doesn't just settle back down?

Aren't dirt and water half of the elements or something like that?

 

[Burnham]

No, it doesn't just settle back down. And Carl's "little spot" is replicated a great many thousands of times just in MS, I'd bet. The effects are cumulative over the landscape...uh, sorry Butch, what I mean is, a bunch of mudholes is worse than a few .

 

[MasterBlaster]

Is that kinda like what those 'Wellhead Protection Area" signs I occasionally see around here mean?

 

[Burnham]

Perhaps in a somewhat related way...are those zones where surface contamination has a high risk of infiltrating a water well? That would represent a risk of direct pollution of an aquifer, or maybe just the reservoir within the well casing, through the upper area of the bore hole.

 

[lumberjack]

An aside, are Oregon rivers typically rock lined and have clear flowing water? Most of Mississippi isn't like that.

With the four wheeler videos, none of that is connected to a water way and are man made water structures built with the intent of riding. The last part of the longer video is a racing track on a 550 acre riding park with roughly 22 miles of trails. The cloudy water is most likely due to low alkalinity of the water keeping the particles in suspension.

I agree that atv tires can tear up the surface causing both mechanically and hydraulically formed ruts although both are readily fixable with modern heavy equipment. The amount of sediment being added to the water ways from that is by my estimation quite negligible sources of sediment. My county has a water area of near 3%. To put sediment contamination in perspective (for me at least), the Mississippi Delta's hugely fertile alluvial plains was created by soil erosion. In some areas the fertile soil can be over 30' deep and covers ~13k square miles. I read that it's estimated that the Mississippi River moves around 160 million tons of sediment per year.

I disagree on ATVs causing subsurface compaction, given their low contact pressure and my understanding of how soil compaction works from an engineering front, I highly doubt the influence depth is deeper than a foot around here. Also the surface area disturbed by off roading activity is substantially lower than our infrastructure.

It's an interesting topic I'm enjoying researching.

 

[Burnham]

I agree without reservation with your last sentence of fourth para, Carl.