Tying off to a vehicle

[treebilly]

I just looked at a job for the RR and it entails clearing the trees off of an older bridge forty feet above a state route. The road will be closed so traffic isn't a problem. The grade from the tracks to the bridge sides is. It's almost cliff like. The top layer of soil is cinders from back in the day of steam engines so it's very loose stuff. The trees are not all that big and are almost saplings at the top of the slope. My question is does anyone know of a good and safe way to tie off to a pick up truck for a repelling ancor? I'm drawing up a diagram for a hitch mounted double ring. The idea being that two climbers can tie off without the ropes crossing in case we choose Ddrt. I've just never had the need to anchor like this before. I know Bermy has some cliff experience and many of you have rock climbing back grounds. Any input will help. Thanks
The pic doesn't really show the actual slope. To get a better look I choked the rail and descended through the mess. It's steep. Oh and I did have approval and verification of train traffic as well as a railway representative on site while doing this. It's actually a job I'm really looking forward to doing just for the experience.

 

[MasterBlaster]

What a gig!

Just send as much to the ground as fast as possible, and have extra grunts that day!

 

[treebilly]

That's the plan boss. Handing in my assessment and recommendations in the morning. Gonna try and sqeeze some ropetek systems into the bid.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Always be green and growing!

 

[Bermy]

Are you saying you can park your truck up top there?

If so, you could put a RR friction saver around the towbar, then put you rope through that either for DdRT or SRT.
Just be careful where you rope goes over any edges, protect against chafe, very important.

Another option, can't really see the angle from your picture, but if there are any nearby trees, you could put your rope up in that if it overhangs the work area sufficiently...and/or redirect from the back of your truck.

Looks like fun anyway!

 

[pantheraba]

Looks like a cool job! I have anchored a PortaWrap to a receiver hitch before to lower limbs...just had to be cognizant of sharp edges like Bermy said. We used a big carabiner where the ball would go.

 

[treebilly]

Bermy do you think srt would be better suited for this? It would be less rope moving around. As for trees up top on the sides to use, if there is one on each end of the bridge could I set a line between the two with a pulley or ring as a sliding tie in point? Sorry I can't think of the proper term for it. It's been a long day.
Gary that's what I was thinking for getting anything down that I might have to control. The one side has I six foot deep channel that I really don't want to land things in for the ground crews sake.

 

[pantheraba]

That is a highline...precisely what I thought about suggesting but got the impression there weren't many good sized trees around.

I have done that several times...worked well.

 

[treebilly]

Might be. Even if just high enough to keep my ropes up from the ground. I'll have to look through the pics I took and see if I got anything. I might have to drive back down this weekend and check it out.

 

[CurSedVoyce]

If you are going over the edge of something.. SRT is better suited. Just make sure you have your handled ascender with you and a pulley for a quick 3:1 ascent set up.

 

[pantheraba]

I used a highline here to keep my weight off an ivy covered tree that was uprooting.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

I do a lot of this for views. Around here, there is a lot of water front property, some with very steep slopes, and even very undercut lips

If you have to re-ascend, SRT for sure. I'd use a foot ascender over a 3:1. Protect your rope appropriately. Bermy was working on limestone, IIRC. Have a second SRT line, if only a friction hitch on a rope.


I'd only want as much rope as it would take to get to the ground and a bit more of the rope for emergency lowering. Have the appropriate amount of rope for emergency lowering.


A POW that has been used for rigging isn't "supposed to be used" for life support. If I looked at it, and it looked fine, I wouldn't care. I'm the owner, so not subject to OSHA, WC requirements.

A Munter hitch-Mule knot with overhand knot tie off...munter-mule overhand tie off, is very useful, and only take one life support biner.

http://www.animatedknots.com/muntermule/index.php?Categ=climbing

 

[Bermy]

Yeah, SRT is way better, done it both ways. I carry a petzl basic and a revolver for 3:1 if you have to go back up and there are limited footholds.

I used a 'conduit saver' for chafe protection. I put it on the rope from the beginning, tied it on with a little prussic made from old throwline...prussic around my rope, then tie the ends to the conduit, I slid it down with me as I went over the edge then left it at the position where my rope went against the rock. If you had someone up on the bridge, they could perhaps drape a trap or something and move it as needed...but the conduit saver moves with you. PS you have to tie the prussic BELOW the conduit, otherwise when you want to move up it gets hidden inside and you can't reach it to loosen it...ask me how I know

A high-line would be awesome, but what about the sag in the middle, could you get it tight enough to be effective?

 

[pantheraba]

For life support I would take the Portie out of the equation...just use the big biner thru the receiver hitch hole...maybe multiple biners to increase the bend radius. Not sure if that is "approved"......but..I would.

 

[Bermy]

Using the petzl basic/revolver combo allowed me to push out with my feet away from the cliff coming up, using just my pantin would have kept me too close to the cliff, and anyway by the time I was ready to come up...I was bushed so 3:1 was real nice. Didn't need it much though, cliff was pretty climbable...if crumbly

 

[treebilly]

Rigging is rigging, climbing is climbing. I ussually follow that but don't agree entirely. If I trust something to catch a thousand pounds it's not gonna notice my 165 on it. But I know why it's a rule.
I'll probably try the foot ascender and the 3:1 and see what will work best.

 

[SouthSoundTree-]

If you're going over a dirt and cinder embankment, might try to put a tarp under the rope, and avoid the 3:1, or consider that climbing line retired after the job. A rope moving under load will grind the dirt and cinders in.

A moving rope can dislodge stuff above, too.

If you can just work your way down, then catch a ride back to the top or walk, it might be better than re-ascending. Sometimes, I do that if there is a bulkhead or beach below, with stairs back up.

The high banks around here can be around 80' above the tide line, so people often need clearing. Its nothing fancy, just more dirt to go with your sawdust and saw chips.



I agree with the Rigging is Rigging, unless you have a back up life-support system (I munter rappel all the time on the pull rope for the spar, and have my spurs and lanyard on the whole time). The Munter-mule-overhand is not complicated, but not easy to inspect until you know what it looks like (as with any knot). The munter holds the load, the mule knot holds the munter. The overhand ties the tail of the mule knot...btw, fwiw.

 

[Bermy]

For real, if there is no need to go back up the rope...don't.

 

[treebilly]

Yeah I plan on coming off the edge to the road at least once just for fun. A new climb line for each of us is on my job requirement list( to replace the ones we are gonna use). I'll just sleeve the line over the break point and have one of the guys drive us back around. It's only a mile till the next crossing.
I'm guilty of that too Sean. Except I use a rescue 8 instead of a munter.

 

[lumberjack]

I'm a hammer; the world is a nail and all, but why not use a lift from the road?

 

[gf beranek]

Beautiful the way nature (plants) grow over infrastructure when you let them grow. time for a mow job.

 

[treebilly]

Yes Gerry it is cool how nature takes back what is hers.
Carl we thought about it and decided against it. We only have a sixty foot bucket truck so to be able to reach a good amount we would have to nose up tight leaving a small drop zone and still not reach everything. With the loose cinders and stone we would also risk hitting the truck with that stuff. It'll probably be going to the job anyhow as a tool truck so we will probably rewiegh the risk and worth when that time comes. We could rent a bigger lift but with all the oil and gas work going on they are hard to come by.

 

[MasterBlaster]

It's always time for a mow job!

Wait...

 

[woodslinger]

If you're doing SRT I wouldn't worry too much about bend radius. In rock climbing we use a figure eight knot or a clove hitch into a single biner all the time as 1 leg of our anchor. Anchors are generally doubled up so your not relying on a single piece of gear, but dynamic loads are much more prevalent in that situation.
In all honesty if it were me, my life, my gear, I would hook a biner to the safety chain location, or to a hitch mounted shackle (anything if can't slip off from) or the loop style tow hook (like the front of my f250) slip some tubular nylon over the rope where it'll rub the edge, tie an eight on a bite, clip it to the biner, and go. Probably would place some tarp or something at the edge for added rope protection. Just my $.02
For some added failsafe you could actually build a quick top rope style anchor to 2 points on the truck, such as a biner and sling from each tow hook, with biners at the other end of each sling, your rope goes through both biners (to avoid tri loading a single biner).
Looks and sounds like a fun one, enjoy it.

 

[Tim_B.]

Looks like a cool job! I have anchored a PortaWrap to a receiver hitch before to lower limbs...just had to be cognizant of sharp edges like Bermy said. We used a big carabiner where the ball would go.

Gary, you were not kidding about a big biner! That is the biggest biner I've ever seen! What is it called, and where did you buy it? Thanks in advance for any answer you can give.


Tim