MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Beer thirty! 
two man crews
- Thread starter McGuarantee
- Start date
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McGuarantee
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #27
thanks for all your replies! lots of good points. why bossman isn't interested in track loaders/mini skid steers/ brush handlers is beyond me. we have plenty of money for nice equipment. 17 ton crane, log loader, nice chippers, etc. but the loaders just aren't on the agenda. seems like it would be a huge morale booster.
ran a 3 man crew today because it was partially a crane job, which is sort of a required 3 man crew if your not running one of those sweet remote control k-booms. bossman has sent us out with two guys on a crane job before...operator is trying to do a thousand different things...
they eventually figured out that wouldn't work very efficiently.
ran a 3 man crew today because it was partially a crane job, which is sort of a required 3 man crew if your not running one of those sweet remote control k-booms. bossman has sent us out with two guys on a crane job before...operator is trying to do a thousand different things...
they eventually figured out that wouldn't work very efficiently.
sotc
Dormant hero!!
Depends on the work. A crew is financially most efficient when just slightly under manned. We often split into 2 crews of 2, or 1 goes stumping, or 4 on a job, what ever seems to suit the schedule
Evan Sussman
TreeHouser
In my experinece it comes down to whether or not the "cutters" can keep the others busy. At this point in my business I'm training my help to prune, they don't climb yet. Now, and only recently could I have a 3rd man on a fine pruning job. If it is just me on a fine prune can't keep one groundie busy, and I mean busy busy.
As far as the financial side. You need to do an hourly cost analisis. Basically take your annual expenses, projected if you don't have them, and divide them by your billable man hours. It will vary, but what it comes down to is the difference in cost between a 2 and 3 man crew is payroll + maybe a little fuel if he is running a saw... The more men you add, the more your "breakeven" cost comes down. If you are able to maintain your hourly rate with 3-4-5 men, that's awesome, and it just means your profit margin increases.
For example, if I remember correctly I can break even around $55/man/hr for a two man crew if we're working 20 hrs/week. (I based calcualtions on half time because we are growing, it's more like 30+ on average now). Goal is $75/man. If we add a third guy, I still aim and push for $75/hr, however I know deeep down inside we still make similar profit at $65/man (I'm just shooting numbers, don't do the math and correct me....).
I would love to be getting $100/man, I think we'll get there, I'm still training... So much about it comes down to skilled help!
As far as the financial side. You need to do an hourly cost analisis. Basically take your annual expenses, projected if you don't have them, and divide them by your billable man hours. It will vary, but what it comes down to is the difference in cost between a 2 and 3 man crew is payroll + maybe a little fuel if he is running a saw... The more men you add, the more your "breakeven" cost comes down. If you are able to maintain your hourly rate with 3-4-5 men, that's awesome, and it just means your profit margin increases.
For example, if I remember correctly I can break even around $55/man/hr for a two man crew if we're working 20 hrs/week. (I based calcualtions on half time because we are growing, it's more like 30+ on average now). Goal is $75/man. If we add a third guy, I still aim and push for $75/hr, however I know deeep down inside we still make similar profit at $65/man (I'm just shooting numbers, don't do the math and correct me....).
I would love to be getting $100/man, I think we'll get there, I'm still training... So much about it comes down to skilled help!
flushcut
TreeHouser
We are running a four man crew right now and I love it!
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Trying to expand to a four man crew that can also be two crews of two. Two climbers and two ground are fun and amazing on the right job.
Mick!
TreeHouser
I have 1 permanent groundsman and 1 casual, but sometimes he'll work the whole week.
3 is so much better, financially, physically and morale wise.
3 is so much better, financially, physically and morale wise.
McGuarantee
TreeHouser
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #33
Amen! Especially about the morale part. Big area to rake in the full sun on a hot hot day...the more hands the merrier.
RopeArmour
TreeHouser
One or more climbers. My best yrs was with another climber and credit to captain of women's university water Polo team. Pretty amazing how much work got done in a Week. Right now is perfect pace of business. Work the week, sales on Saturday, Sunday maintenance, hopefully personal mostly.
Chris E
I'm Not Slash
Recently on various jobs I've run as much as 2 climbers + 5 groundies, 1 climber + 5 groundies. But mostly its 2 or three guys total. Im experimenting with lifting my rates and running two crews where it seems low risk... Got a long term goal of doing 3 days onsite then 1 day sales, 1 day maintenance. Getting the work hasnt been a problem of late so I'm experimenting to see what can and cant be done.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Part of goal as wl. Not a larger grou nd crew. But more time to do sales and maintanence. I want more iron, not necessarily bodies.
E
E
flushcut
TreeHouser
I hear ya I find myself running the mini all day and have only ran a saw for three trees in the last two weeks. I miss my saws.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
Mini is back up and running. Bigger chipper is coming. Need a log/grapple trailer next like what Brendon has. Then an Avant or Gehl.
Tucker943
Bamboo Plantation Owner
3 men is my favorite number especially if the work territory isn't too vast. 3 guys hopping around a tight radius of jobs has been my magic ticket at times. If all three guys give a shit, and pay mind to efficiency and caring for equipment, the money just rolls in. I think the mind frame of the men determine more then the number of men.
treebilly
Student of the Jedi. OH-7106A
I agree Tucker. One of the reasons I'm thinking of leaving to do my own thing is nobody else seems to give a shit. I did a " side job" yesterday with two of us. We knocked out a job that my three man crew at work would've had a hard time with. Jason and I have been doing " side work" together for 15 years and we know each of our roles and how to makes things happen. At work if I can't rope things right into the chipper the guys are talking about how they can't wait to hit the bar as soon as the job starts. Good help is hard to find. Rant over for now
Nailed it.
Chris E
I'm Not Slash
Yep, I think its the sweet spot of the market- jobs that take 3 motivated dudes around 3-4 hours.
CurSedVoyce
California Hillbilly
That's a sig line for certain.
SouthSoundTree-
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2014
- Messages
- 4,941
A mini is always motivated. Helps two guys not get so tired out.
PCTREE
Treehouser
don't think I could ever do trees without iron again.....
SouthSoundTree-
TreeHouser
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2014
- Messages
- 4,941
F no!
flushcut
TreeHouser
Depends on the gig IMO.
MasterBlaster
Administrator Emeritus
Many variables are involved for sure!
Mick!
TreeHouser
There is another aspect of numbers, with two guys on the ground it's much easier to keep an eye on two orange helmets below the tree. More than that and you have to start counting before you drop something. I was doing a job for the local town once and they "lent" me half a dozen guys. Nothing would persuade them not to enter the drop zone. It got a bit fraught.
