Tieing in While Blocking Down

[brendonv]

I'm on a role here.

In the friction saver thread, a few mentioned using them while they block down wood. Personally I have just been using my climb line cinched around the spar but....if hurt, it would be hell getting down.

What are some of the best ways to attach yourself to the spar, and being able to get down still.

I was thinking a running bowline with a munter on a biner with the friction hitch as a backup somehow.

Later,

B

 

[gf beranek]

I'm with you on that one. I've often thought about what a bitch it would be since there's usually not a stub or crotch on a bare pole to hold the climbline in place.

I suppose a rope guide would probably be the best for it. Hey?

 

[Burnham]

I'm on a role here.

In the friction saver thread, a few mentioned using them while they block down wood. Personally I have just been using my climb line cinched around the spar but....if hurt, it would be hell getting down.

What are some of the best ways to attach yourself to the spar, and being able to get down still.

I was thinking a running bowline with a munter on a biner with the friction hitch as a backup somehow.

Later,

B

I like this arrangement, the adjustable false crotch, aka ring and ring friction saver. You can set it up with your standard DdRT setup, of course. Works fine on a clear bole, so long as you keep it at least lightly loaded

Dang, can't get my pic to upload...I'll try again later.

 

[Burnham]

Let's see...nope, still getting "database error" when I try to upload an attachment to my post.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Let's see...

Hey, I can't either. Something must be up/down.

 

[Blinky]

I cinch my lifeline onto the spar with a biner. From there it goes to my friction knot. From there it goes to a figure 8 clipped to my right D-ring. That gives me a backed up, ready to rock, emergency descent method. That's usually just for tops and problematic blocks. I skip the figure 8 when I'm pushing lots of regular sized blocks because moving the setup down is a hassle.

I used to use a false crotch when I wore a Master Classic saddle but with my BF II bridge I can't get close enough that way. Now I only use the FC to descend from the spar.

 

[squisher]

I do the same as what Brendon describes when blocking down and so Chip you're saying you do the same thing as well but just back it up /set-up with a fig 8 in place if need be if I'm understanding correctly? I'd be real interested in hearing what other people do or have come up with.

I cinch my lifeline onto the spar with a biner. From there it goes to my friction knot. From there it goes to a figure 8 clipped to my right D-ring.

 

[Wagnaw]

I almost always tie a running bowline when piecing down a spar, and If I am at all wondering, I'll tie a munter above my VT. The munter takes the weight and the VT controls the speed of decent. The problem is that the Munter-VT combo is really only good for safety sake as a back up in case you need an emergency decent.

Do any of you tie a running bowline and cinch it to one side when working on leaning spars? That's my favorite part of that set up cause it allows you to lean out to the side on a leaner and cut the face cut. The running bowline keeps you from swinging around to the underside of the tree.

 

[Hobby Climber]

This is my setup of choice. Very simple & effective!

I climb to my work position and install a 2nd tie-in. From there, I can climb higher or lower to another position very easily!

If I have to get down fast for what ever reason, I just un-clip the 2nd tie-in, grab the line below the Fig.8 and with other hand release tension on the Blake's and down I go.

Best of all, if you get in trouble on the way down and you loose grip of the lower line...you have the Blake's as a back up!

And there ya have it, .


HC

 

[MasterBlaster]

OK, call me stoopid. I don't understand the need for the "escape" line. Give me a scenario where having that is better than just stepping down the tree on your lanyard and spurs. A massive leg cut, maybe? Even then I think I would be able to get my lame ass down off the spar. Hell, I might even do like those pole racers and do a controlled fall to the ground.
Am I insane in the membrane, orrrr whut?

 

[sotc]

cut arm or face?

 

[Blinky]

Helldiving Bluejays

 

[Hobby Climber]

OK, call me stoopid. I don't understand the need for the "escape" line. Give me a scenario where having that is better than just stepping down the tree on your lanyard and spurs. A massive leg cut, maybe? Even then I think I would be able to get my lame ass down off the spar. Hell, I might even do like those pole racers and do a controlled fall to the ground.
Am I insane in the membrane, orrrr whut?

------------------------------



Ah Butch... Friggin BEE's!!!!!!!!!

HC

 

[squisher]

I would think because you want to be tied in twice anyways, that the second tie in may as well serve a double pupose of giving you a peel out route as long as it isn't ridiculously gear/labor intensive.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Bees? On a spar? In order for it to be a spar means I've already climbed up once, and now I am blocking it down/descending.

Why wouldn't I have seen the bees upon ascension?

I would think because you want to be tied in twice anyways,

That's not what we're talking about.

 

[squisher]

I would think because you want to be tied in twice anyways, that the second tie in may as well serve a double pupose of giving you a peel out route as long as it isn't ridiculously gear/labor intensive.

Isn't this what you were referring to as being set-up as a escape route vs just being a 2nd tie in point that can't be used for emergency descent without some modification or backing up?

 

[wiley_p]

I've always tied in with a single line rappel setup. My thought being if I get slammed, etc All i need to do is undo my flipline and a groundman can control my descent with tension/slack. If its a leaner, depending on species i will tie a constrictor hitch, otherwise I just take a wrap and choke it with a biner. I use a Munter, backed up by my VT. Works great I can weight the hitch and move around with that tie-in. When working down a dead fir a couple years back I took WAY to big of a log 16"x24' Brian did as good a job as he could roping it down, but it still knocked the shit out of me Cracked ribs, busted nose, etc. I could have gotten down on my own but it would have been tough. He had me on the ground inside of 30 seconds.

 

[SkwerI]

I'm gonna have to agree with Butch on this one. All the extra rigging and planning sounds good on paper, but after 20 years of climbing you start to figure out what really works in real life and what is just unneccessary fear. Two rules on chunking down a spar- Don't cut your rope and don't hurt yourself.

And since we're on the topic, I'll say that my worst tree injury ever occurred while blocking down a spar. I had topped out a pine tree for removal in the middle of an empty lot. I had power lines across the front of the lot so I needed to get it down to 25'-30' before I could flop the spar. So I was cutting off 6'-8' chunks and got it down about 30' or so. The ground guy said it was short enough but I thought I needed one more piece. I misjudged which way it was leaning, I was too far below my cut and I didn't use a notch. I made the cut with one hand about head high and reached up with my other hand to push the log. It was heavier than I thought and I accidentally cut all the way through, then I pushed the bottom out and the top of the log came back on me. The log landed on my thumb on top of the spar and splattered my thumb open.

I still managed to walk my way down the spar and got on the ground before throwing up and almost passing out. They got me to the hospital and it took 15 stitches to piece together what was left of my thumb. It still works but I don't have any feeling in the tip any more.

 

[Stumper]

Since discovering the adjustable ring and ring friction saver I use it habitually when blocking down a spar. It is easily manipulated ( not as fast as a simple slacked loop of climbing line but it ain't hard) and it is SECURE.

 

[Monkeypuzzle]

I think Brian and Butch have the years behind them from doing production removals to understand what is going to work and what aint. Period.

Use a Friction Saver Prusik while a spar is busting from a bad notch or back cut and you will still have problems once the chaos is over. Do you carry a cell phone into the tree with you? Are you dipping Cope? What's the distraction.

Pay attention to what's at hand and go on to the next job. If you got lots of time to play around and fiddle with STUFF great. Profit margin?????Time is $$$$.Are you on the Man's time?

How many folks do you see complaining at the XGames. "Oh no, that young man should not do the back flip on that bike." "Oh my God, that is just too darn dangerous." Never gonna happen. Shit happens, keep your eye on the ball.

Show me the difference. It's a thrill a miute.

 

[Ax-Man]

What if someone had to come up and get you down Butch??? Your a big guy it would be much easier to get you down on an escape line that it would to try and unclip you and then have to try and clip you onto a rescuer's harness.

I have never done an actual rescue from a tree except in those competition climbs for the arborist chapters. Even though the event uses mock victims or rescue dummies and they are suspended up in the tree they are still heavy to move around to position them for lowering to the ground . It is not as easy as it looks if your watching the event from the ground. An actual unconscience person would be plain dead weight. Without some kind of lowering line it would be extremely hard and darn near impossible if the rescuer was smaller and weighted less than the injured person to get them down to the ground.

A second tie in for me for blocking down is to cinch the biner around the spar to my climbing line with a VT to descend on if I need to get down fast. If I'm actually going to descend off a spar then I'll use some kind of friction saver.

 

[stehansen]

I've come down on the blakes around the climbing line which was choked around the spar. You had to pull pretty hard on the knot to get it to move but it worked.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i lanyard high for stability; and lower for lifeline; with sling/krab set as a stop to reeve lifeline thru. If rigging down off same spar; then lifeline must be protected place. If not it must go high/over block too. Sometimes i have a 3rd tie in of sling/krab set over block to; directly to front D's for comfort/stability and to be able to convert over to lifeline top if i need to descend. A few times i've even placed krab from side of block's sling to lifeline in case of emergency descent(after reading about escape concerns/having them on my mind); but that could get you into trouble too..

Larry, just cuz you have to rescue someone; i don't think you should call'em a dummy.

 

[brendonv]

Can I get a pic of how you guys are incorporating a munter and VT? I'm not seeing it in my head...

 

[lumberjack]

Your VT first, then the tail of the line into a munter, or an eight.

If I'm blocking down I use my climbing line choked around the stem using the biner and my VT to carry my weight.

It'll work for getting out of the tree.

If I'm popping the top and coming straight down I use the RG and my traditional setup.